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UK police secretly downloading content from suspects’ phones (2018)

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Re: UK police secretly downloading content from suspects’ phones (2018)

#81

Post by Silhouette »

cstross wrote: post #40
ksajadi wrote: post #19

When back in the early 00's the UK wanted to introduce a picture ID card, there were huge protests across the country that resulted in the scheme being shelved indefinitely. It took the UK years to even introduce a picture driving license (you might have seen the "counterpart" old driving licenses which were in use until very recently. They were a single A4 sheet with no picture on it). How ironic that despite the co…

The National ID Card controversy wasn't simply about a photo-ID card (as noted, UK driving licenses are biometric photo-ID cards—and have been since before the NID was mooted). The real problem was the integration of a National Identity Register, a universal biometric ID database storing numerous non-essential items that was to act as a central authentication point for access to all government (and many corporate) se…

It's actually illegal for a shop CCTV system to cover the pavement outside, for example.

Do you have a source for that, please? I've been wondering about this kind of issue for a long time, as a lot of private premises now have cameras obviously overlooking public space outside or even more private areas like the gardens of neighbouring properties. Personally I find that quite intrusive in terms of the public spaces and rather inappropriate in terms of neighbouring private spaces, but given the many ambiguities in our data protection and privacy laws, it's not obvious to me what would make it illegal in black and white. Both the UK government web site and the ICO do have specific guidance about domestic CCTV systems that clearly allows the possibility of and provides guidance for systems that overlook areas outside the operator's own property.

Re: UK police secretly downloading content from suspects’ phones (2018)

#82

Post by ForHackernews »

nihalot wrote: post #78
Silhouette wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most of the CCTV isn't operated by the government, though.

Then by whom? Or do you mean that the CCTV systems are private(home/commercial/offices)?

Yes, most CCTV in the UK is done by private companies.

Re: UK police secretly downloading content from suspects’ phones (2018)

#83

Post by basetop »

If it is on a massive scale, then how many "suspects" does britain have? Or can anyone be considered a suspect by a police officer? For all of britain's susposed outrage at facebook over their privacy violations, britain sure loves to do its fair share of violating privacy. This seems to be a trend everywhere now. No respect for privacy.

Re: UK police secretly downloading content from suspects’ phones (2018)

#84

Post by Zenst »

It's been around for years, out of principle when I get a new phone, I pop on a zip-bomb of two out of principle against anybody scraping my phone in any capacity without my direct approval - then I'd tell them.

Though those truly paranoid - there are many ways to curtail such actions, re-wire the USB lines demanding you use a equally rewired USB cable and many other avenues.

But back to the police - what irks me is that whilst they can pull all this data - it is futile unless they use it. Alas the level of data-mining is very much lacking here - unless however it is related to a headline case and then the full PR budgets kick in and the real policing happens (cynical I know, but based upon decades of observations, that are equally shared amongst people in the force I know).

The real thing many overlook is that UK laws are already in place that telco providers have to keep copies of all calls made and text messages for many years (3 iirc at least).

However, things change and it is how long they retain such images of phones content that makes things concerning. After all, laws change and what was legal yesterday, probably won't be tomorrow. But more so - perception and interpretation. As an example the fad of planking could be classed foul of many a law in most situations if zealously applied it could be classed as a performance and as that fun planking video in the local park needed a performance license from the local authority. Then lottoiring laws and many others that came in to curtail real issues but.....if social perception changes could render innocent and well mannered acts foul of legal redress down the line due to cultural change. But been many a innocent fad, all harmless and an edge-case accident happens so that fad then becomes demonised. That happens. But with social media and other snapshots of your life moments via your phone immortalized. Whilst the spirit of the law is more important than the letter of the law, that spirit over time can change and yet facts do not and afford reinterpretation at a later time of the event. That end up recontextualizing it all and some innocent, totally harmless and socially acceptable action of the time could become antisocial tomorrow. Cigerrettes - classic upon that, and who knows, maybe in a few hundred years time, pictures of this era of people smoking will garner cries of murderer in future minds and classed as terrorist poisoners murdering the innocent around them with their polluting weapons of mass destruction.

So yes, how long they retain it - would be the real concern about all this.

Re: UK police secretly downloading content from suspects’ phones (2018)

#85

Post by Dirlewanger »

jedharris wrote: post #79
barry-cotter wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Pervasive surveillance will inevitably lead to machine learning techniques being used to analyse the data which will massively increase the rates of false positives, people who aren’t a threat but who the system flags as potential threats. Freedom and security trade off against one another.

Citation needed. You are making a strong statement about the inevitable future based on what? Sounds like evidence as strong as your claim would be worth some very interesting papers.

Have you been paying attention to anything regarding government surveillance in the past decade? NSA? Five Eyes? Governments are thirsty for any new tech that allows them to amass data fast about public behavior. There's startups that exist right now that use ML techniques to analyze security footage for bad actors. There was a Japanese one on the HN front page a couple days ago. This isn't a slippery slope argument, this shit is happening right now.

Re: UK police secretly downloading content from suspects’ phones (2018)

#86

Post by Zenst »

ksajadi wrote: post #19

When back in the early 00's the UK wanted to introduce a picture ID card, there were huge protests across the country that resulted in the scheme being shelved indefinitely. It took the UK years to even introduce a picture driving license (you might have seen the "counterpart" old driving licenses which were in use until very recently. They were a single A4 sheet with no picture on it). How ironic that despite the co…

Yes we as a country seem to be according to polls mostly in favour, but it depends upon how the poll question is framed https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opinion_polls_on_the_British_n.... However a vocal minority are strongly against it. However, over in Europe - many countries there have national ID cards and equally I'm sure they have their share of distractors against them above and beyond criminal type reasons.

As for the UK being the most watched CCTV density - well - have you seen the quality of most of those CCTV's, egads. Just look at some of the images the UK police release which have been pulled from CCTV. Very rare that their is ever anything that would stand up in court. Then most of these CCTV are private, mostly shops.

So yes, we may (not sure if still have) the most per square mile, but darn - the quality on so many is terrible. But then, older camera's and the rush to be first often does that. Beijing on the other hand, now that's a CCTV network I dare say who could tell you were you lost your house keys in the park if so inclined.

But we British do excel at irony. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Situational_irony_-_Baker...

Re: UK police secretly downloading content from suspects’ phones (2018)

#87

Post by pjc50 »

KevanM wrote: post #68
pjc50 wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was a campaigner against ID cards back then, and this is basically spot on: even back then, the people on the street who supported ID cards mentioned immigration. What happened? The biometric residence permits. ID cards are mandatory if you're a non-EU immigrant. The rest of the "hostile environment" made proof of immigration status mandatory for employment and renting a house. We got all the pieces of a surveillan…

Excuse me if I have a simplistic view of this, but wouldn't an ID card have helped Windrush citizens prove their citizenship?

Perhaps - assuming they could get one in the first place. Alternatively the application process could have simply accelerated their deportation. Things might have gone better under the Blair government, but the whole point of ID cards is to impose the state's view on everyone's status.

Re: UK police secretly downloading content from suspects’ phones (2018)

#88

Post by Maximus9000 »

Zenst wrote: post #84

It's been around for years, out of principle when I get a new phone, I pop on a zip-bomb of two out of principle against anybody scraping my phone in any capacity without my direct approval - then I'd tell them. Though those truly paranoid - there are many ways to curtail such actions, re-wire the USB lines demanding you use a equally rewired USB cable and many other avenues. But back to the police - what irks me is…

> I pop on a zip-bomb of two out of principle against anybody scraping my phone

Do zip bombs still work in 2019? I'd expect most antivirus and unzip programs can detect this easily, no?

Re: UK police secretly downloading content from suspects’ phones (2018)

#89

Post by Zenst »

Maximus9000 wrote: post #88
Zenst wrote: post #84

It's been around for years, out of principle when I get a new phone, I pop on a zip-bomb of two out of principle against anybody scraping my phone in any capacity without my direct approval - then I'd tell them. Though those truly paranoid - there are many ways to curtail such actions, re-wire the USB lines demanding you use a equally rewired USB cable and many other avenues. But back to the police - what irks me is…

> I pop on a zip-bomb of two out of principle against anybody scraping my phone Do zip bombs still work in 2019? I'd expect most antivirus and unzip programs can detect this easily, no?

Sure, but dedicated hardware and a very deep nested zip hinting at something juicy deep at the bottom, maybe - maybe not. Be fun to find out if such an eventuality transpires.

Might prove that they are the perfect way to store your sensitive data - buried deep inside a zip-bomb, knowing AV will filter it away. Food for thought.

Re: UK police secretly downloading content from suspects’ phones (2018)

#90

Post by gambiting »

jMyles wrote: post #73
catoc wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Last I heard (see source) is that they can bypass the pinlock delay, making brute-force entry much more efficient. If you use a numeric pincode, even if 8 digits, "breaking the encryption" is well within their reach. If you use an alphanumeric+symbols password that 8 characters or longer, brute-forcing rapidly becomes impossible, even for cellebrite. A running, unlocked phone may be hacked by zero days. Encryption at…

What about a pattern?

Pattern is just a numeric lock underneath(the dots that you connect represent numbers on a numpad, on Android they even used to be saved in plaintext as a pin until Android 2.1 iirc).
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