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Sweden’s Push to Get Rid of Cash Has Some Saying, ‘Not So Fast’

nytimes.com

81–90 of 100 posts

Re: Sweden’s Push to Get Rid of Cash Has Some Saying, ‘Not So Fast’

#81
post #37

Does anyone understand why cash is so common in Germany (or why cards are so rarely accepted)? I didn't expect it from a modern first world European country.

Germans are sort of reticent or skeptical about a lot of modern consumer technology, I've found.

Maybe they are just more aware of the associated risks?

Re: Sweden’s Push to Get Rid of Cash Has Some Saying, ‘Not So Fast’

#82
post #14

Looking at what China is doing is gonna give them more ammunition. I used to love digital payment but I'm getting increasingly wary of it. Look what big private companies did with our data, what will happen when they have all your purchase history and when your daily life depends on them approving your transactions? It's too much power. Look at the many horror stories of people getting their money locked out in Paypa…

Agreed. Living in SH, you get tied to the convenience of Wechat. I had a few hour issue with an update to my phone and I realized the vulnerability is enormous. Your entire adult network and ability to function is lost without it and its links to everything.

Re: Sweden’s Push to Get Rid of Cash Has Some Saying, ‘Not So Fast’

#83
post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Germans are sort of reticent or skeptical about a lot of modern consumer technology, I've found.

Maybe they are just more aware of the associated risks?

no, unfortunately most eastern european societies are completely broken due to USSR influences. it was a wide-held belief in eastern europe that the state knows everything about you and that you should hide your daily life from everyone, as everyone could be a spy working for the government. this is what historically underlines gdpr and the whole privacy movement in europe: a deep-seated mistrust of everything and everyone. even to this day most european societies that fell behind the iron curtain are still broken 30 years after it came down.

Re: Sweden’s Push to Get Rid of Cash Has Some Saying, ‘Not So Fast’

#85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is untrue. For tourists and Visa/MasterCard paying with a card is usually cheaper than withdrawing foreign cash at ATM. With ATM you are slapped with a foreign withdrawal fee and you usually get worse exchange rate.

Depends on your credit card: it's not uncommon for them to also slap you with foreign transaction fees of 3% or higher. In general, the hierarchy of fees is no-fee CC < regular CC < ATM withdrawal < exchange cash at destination < exchange cash somewhere else.

Not sure why you're being downvoted. Some (but not all) of my American credit cards charge an explicit 3% foreign exchange conversion fee on top of whatever exchange rate they give you. It can happen even if the transaction is denominated in US dollars.

Re: Sweden’s Push to Get Rid of Cash Has Some Saying, ‘Not So Fast’

#86
post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thankfully Sweden got GDPR, which protects from collecting data "just because you can".

> Thankfully Sweden got GDPR, which protects from collecting data "just because you can". Not really. https://blog.instantor.com/ultimate-guide-gdpr-impacts-on-cr...

A. This is a source that is part of the problem industry (and therefore expected to paint a rosy picture).

B. This source also states that the GDPR prevents data harvesting without consent, which it mentions continuously throughout this article.

Re: Sweden’s Push to Get Rid of Cash Has Some Saying, ‘Not So Fast’

#87
post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's been a while since I lived in Sweden, but does Swish not tie to a credit card? If so, it would be no more able to process payments than credit cards, as the payment processor is still involved. It will only work if it uses direct bank transfers, in which case an outage at your bank or in clearing houses (which is no less likely than an outage at a large payment provider) would take out both debit cards, Swish, a…

Swish is cleared by the Bankgirot system. I'm not completely sure about the technical details but there is no card involved.

I am only intimately familiar with one EU country's banking transaction infrastructure, but there it is the case that when one (major) creditcard provider has a network outage the debit network is also down.

Re: Sweden’s Push to Get Rid of Cash Has Some Saying, ‘Not So Fast’

#88
post #22
post #4

The interesting component to this is what happens when the payment system $hits the bed. 3 weeks ago last friday and saturday in sydney the communications system underlying about 50% of all financial transactions (taxi card readers, many ATMs, many businesses) collapsed with the result that if you didn't have cash you couldn't make an exchange. How robust do people really think these systems are? I certainly have no…

I think the systems are pretty robust by any measure. I've never had a card reader in the Netherlands fail and had to pay with cash before. I have seen ATM's out of order a couple of times though. If the payment networks all go down, I imagine you'd also have trouble withdrawing cash from an ATM too. What's the alternative? Cash under your mattress for a rainy day? Do you think the value of cash would be stable enoug…

> I've never had a card reader in the Netherlands fail and had to pay with cash before.

This is extra amusing because there was a major outage this year in the card payment infrastructure of the Netherlands. It's possible you missed it, but only if you didn't try to pay anywhere.

Re: Sweden’s Push to Get Rid of Cash Has Some Saying, ‘Not So Fast’

#89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Anyone not selling your data is just sitting on money-making opportunities for no reason. It would be insane. First thing that popped up: https://www.businessinsider.com/credit-cards-sell-purchase-d... So, we know they sell anonymized data. We don't know if its easily de-anonymizable because that takes some studying, and we don't know what else they are selling they don't tell you about.

Right, but is it known they sell the data in the EU?

It would be breathtakingly naive to think this is not done.

Re: Sweden’s Push to Get Rid of Cash Has Some Saying, ‘Not So Fast’

#90
post #6

Cash = anonymity as credit card companies sell your data to Facebook and anyone else...

But not in Europe, where the privacy protection laws forbids doing this without client's consent.

Perhaps they claim it's "anonymised" (which generally means it's still grouped but assigned a number instead of a name), thereby handily circumventing this requirement. I would be more hesitant to assume that just because the GDPR passed, the big guys are already as compliant as you would expect from it's wording. It's much more likely they're maliciously complying, because this nets much more money.
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