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Sweden’s Push to Get Rid of Cash Has Some Saying, ‘Not So Fast’

nytimes.com

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Re: Sweden’s Push to Get Rid of Cash Has Some Saying, ‘Not So Fast’

#31

Post by arghwhat »

davedx wrote: post #22
robbiep wrote: post #4

The interesting component to this is what happens when the payment system $hits the bed. 3 weeks ago last friday and saturday in sydney the communications system underlying about 50% of all financial transactions (taxi card readers, many ATMs, many businesses) collapsed with the result that if you didn't have cash you couldn't make an exchange. How robust do people really think these systems are? I certainly have no…

I think the systems are pretty robust by any measure. I've never had a card reader in the Netherlands fail and had to pay with cash before. I have seen ATM's out of order a couple of times though. If the payment networks all go down, I imagine you'd also have trouble withdrawing cash from an ATM too. What's the alternative? Cash under your mattress for a rainy day? Do you think the value of cash would be stable enoug…

The alternative is cash in the wallet, not having to go to immediately withdraw as that is obviously also down. That is, using cash regularly.

It doesn't even have to be a total credit card blackout, like it has happened a few times in Denmark in recent years. It can be minor fuckups, like your bank accidentally cancelling your card, or shutting it down due to something they consider fradulent activity.

I have seen at least 2 total payment blackouts in the past few years here in Denmark (a virtually cashless society, with very strict laws limiting cash use), have 12 credit cards at home from back when my bank thought I wanted a new one every month (with each sent card cancelling my current one, without notice, before I got the replacement), and friends have had their card cancelled without notice due to undescribed "potentially fradulent activity". It of course takes weeks to get a new one, and during this period you cannot even use an ATM.

All of these are simple errors that will happen again, and again, and again. They shouldn't leave you unable to make trades from your own wealth. You shouldn't rely on others to be able to manage what you own.

Cash isn't inconvenient with electronic cash counting registers. It's fast, simple, and it works regardless of external factors. Oh, and fewer people tracing your every step in this world is nice.

Re: Sweden’s Push to Get Rid of Cash Has Some Saying, ‘Not So Fast’

#33

Post by zmodem »

foldr wrote: post #24
davedx wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the systems are pretty robust by any measure. I've never had a card reader in the Netherlands fail and had to pay with cash before. I have seen ATM's out of order a couple of times though. If the payment networks all go down, I imagine you'd also have trouble withdrawing cash from an ATM too. What's the alternative? Cash under your mattress for a rainy day? Do you think the value of cash would be stable enoug…

>What's the alternative? Withdrawing it from a bank branch.

Many Swedish bank branches (most at this point?) don't have any cash.

Re: Sweden’s Push to Get Rid of Cash Has Some Saying, ‘Not So Fast’

#34

Post by toxik »

ubernostrum wrote: post #12
toxik wrote: post #7

I see a lot of people worry about "what if the connectivity breaks," but truth be told, I had a lot more fuzz with physical money than digital. I put away a small sum as a contingency for exactly this scenario that I never used, and in fact, I had to go change that money to new bills because they became outdated. It's the same for my spare change; all the coins I accumulated over the years are now invalid. This could…

Are you suggesting that demonetization of existing coins and notes is a more common occurrence than internet outages?

I'm not suggesting, I am stating as fact.

Re: Sweden’s Push to Get Rid of Cash Has Some Saying, ‘Not So Fast’

#35

Post by atlasunshrugged »

mtgx wrote: post #21
robbiep wrote: post #4

The interesting component to this is what happens when the payment system $hits the bed. 3 weeks ago last friday and saturday in sydney the communications system underlying about 50% of all financial transactions (taxi card readers, many ATMs, many businesses) collapsed with the result that if you didn't have cash you couldn't make an exchange. How robust do people really think these systems are? I certainly have no…

Continuing to use cash should be a national security issue, just like for instance, using open source software is starting to be in some places. Any country that wants to get rid of cash is just making it easy for future rival nations to cripple its economy with a hack or two.

But why couldn't the government just keep cash on hand in some central location (eg. Fort Knox in USA) and in case of a total system failure have a plan to quickly distribute it across the country. I mean if Amazon can get me socks in 48 hours, I'm pretty sure the govt of nearly any 1st world country could get cash to central repositories in a matter of hours with enough planning.

Re: Sweden’s Push to Get Rid of Cash Has Some Saying, ‘Not So Fast’

#36

Post by Orphis »

The major issue I see regarding a cash-free society (which I am part of by living in Sweden) is that it puts a big burden on tourists who have to pay a huge amount of fees when using their own cards in a different currency.

It is also a bit similar for expats who, under certain conditions, can't apply for a Swedish person number (think SSN) and thus get a fully activated bank account. No bank account? Good luck doing anything!

Re: Sweden’s Push to Get Rid of Cash Has Some Saying, ‘Not So Fast’

#38

Post by SmellyGeekBoy »

dan_hawkins wrote: post #23
SirLJ wrote: post #6

Cash = anonymity as credit card companies sell your data to Facebook and anyone else...

But not in Europe, where the privacy protection laws forbids doing this without client's consent.

I assume "consent" comes in the form of the huge booklet of small print we receive from the bank that nobody reads.

Re: Sweden’s Push to Get Rid of Cash Has Some Saying, ‘Not So Fast’

#39

Post by dtougas »

I would be willing to bet that once a country goes cash-free that a second underground hard currency of some type will develop. Being able to barter/exchange without being tracked, or without being in the "system" has too many upsides for it not to exist. Maybe bottle caps? :-)

Re: Sweden’s Push to Get Rid of Cash Has Some Saying, ‘Not So Fast’

#40

Post by michaelt »

fwsgonzo wrote: post #11
mariefred wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I understand anonymity from my wife, but do credit card companies really sell your data? and Swish which is operated by the banks ?

Anyone not selling your data is just sitting on money-making opportunities for no reason. It would be insane. First thing that popped up: https://www.businessinsider.com/credit-cards-sell-purchase-d... So, we know they sell anonymized data. We don't know if its easily de-anonymizable because that takes some studying, and we don't know what else they are selling they don't tell you about.

Right, but is it known they sell the data in the EU?
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