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How hustle culture took over advertising

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Re: How hustle culture took over advertising

#81

Post by johnchristopher »

helipad wrote: post #63
johnchristopher wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Where does this all come from? This is an honest question. Why are people working themselves to death in the US and having this crazy mindset that doing stuff which puts you on the verge of a breakdown is good? When did this start? I believe it all started when the Church of Pavlina opened and easy access to personal development blog fueled by Ferris and others. The ubermensch was promoted. At the same time Amazon…

Isn't Tim Ferriss' belief the opposite of overworking? I thought that was the whole point of the 4-hour Work Week.

That's the theory. But isn't the premise that by working 8 hours a day à la Ferris you'd end up working 10 times more than the others in the rat race ? (at least that's the vibe I got back then).

It's still about being super efficient though (4 super efficient hours a week. Let's be honest anybody who could do that would do it more than once a week).

Re: How hustle culture took over advertising

#82

Post by lanewinfield »

eiaoa wrote: post #77
lanewinfield wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hatred of advertising at a larger scale, nice. How are those people on said websites (and almost any other medium) supposed to make money?

> How are those people on said websites (and almost any other medium) supposed to make money? 1. Have less annoying ads that respect the user. 2. Charge money. 3. Some novel funding model that's unexplored because obnoxious ads dominate everything and suck all the air out of the room.

Let me preface this by a large percentage of people in advertising are not creating #1. BUT:

1. That's fair, but it takes time and talent to create these.

2. Clearly that isn't working; see almost any news site in existence

3. This is a hope, and a nice one. https://scroll.com/

Re: How hustle culture took over advertising

#83

Post by petra »

PavlovsCat wrote: post #55
apatters wrote: post #24

I'm American but I've lived overseas for nearly a decade, and I hardly ever go back. In recent years when I meet other Americans who are visiting my city, I often get this vague feeling that they're just trying too hard in one way or another. Maybe they're working too hard, or trying too hard to impress someone, or get attention, or assert themselves. I don't know if I've changed or if America is changed or if it's s…

When meaning and agency get steadily stripped away, or are even thrown away gladly, until all that remains are metrics that pretend to fill the hole but never really do, the hamster wheel efficiency goes up by a gazillion percent. A phrase by John Cleese in another context comes to mind: "operating at a very, very low level of mental health." Most people would find that offensive if they heard it head on, but then co…

>> I think his work is to a large extent, meaningless,

So create your own meaning. tell your own story. What's wrong with "i take in a job that feed me and my coworkers" for meaning ?

As for autonomy - that's different.

Re: How hustle culture took over advertising

#84

Post by lanewinfield »

egypturnash wrote: post #79
lanewinfield wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hatred of advertising at a larger scale, nice. How are those people on said websites (and almost any other medium) supposed to make money?

Once Patreon became a thing, I turned off all the ads on my comics and never looked back. I am by no means in even the top 50% of earners but I make more than ads ever did and feel a lot better about it.

That's awesome and great to hear. The issue I think is at scale, though.

Re: How hustle culture took over advertising

#85

Post by esotericn »

lanewinfield wrote: post #73
esotericn wrote: post #2

So, this is the industry that: - puts flashing colored boxes in front of our faces at any possible opportunity - requires us to click through multiple popups to access almost any for-profit website - has normalized the act of wasting human life at a mass scale by injecting multi-minute time-wasting sessions in activities "How hustle culture took over"? It's a hustle by default. I'd call it a swindle.

Hatred of advertising at a larger scale, nice. How are those people on said websites (and almost any other medium) supposed to make money?

Examples, with specific citation:

My local bus stop has adverts (London).

My local metro station does too (London).

They're all over the roads (UK).

They're in pubs (UK).

They're on paid television services (Sky).

They're on paid programs (Windows 10).

They're shown before movies (cinema, UK).

Advertising is _everywhere_, in paid services, unpaid services, whatever.

Unless I'm in my own, or a friend's private home I could probably find an advert by spinning my head around.

Ask yourself - why haven't you included an advert on your comment? You could, and it'd allow you to comment on HN more, right?

Re: How hustle culture took over advertising

#86

Post by criddell »

jbob2000 wrote: post #50
apatters wrote: post #24

I'm American but I've lived overseas for nearly a decade, and I hardly ever go back. In recent years when I meet other Americans who are visiting my city, I often get this vague feeling that they're just trying too hard in one way or another. Maybe they're working too hard, or trying too hard to impress someone, or get attention, or assert themselves. I don't know if I've changed or if America is changed or if it's s…

The US (and by greater extent, the western world) praises individualism - “do it yourself or it won’t get done right” is a common theme. I think this is a driving force behind overwork.

I think it might be more like "do it yourself or it won't get done".

It wasn't that long ago when agriculture was a very big employer. I have a lot of farmers in my family and basically, if the sun is up, they are working. When something needs to be done, they DIY-it mostly because that's all they can afford.

Re: How hustle culture took over advertising

#87

Post by eiaoa »

jensv wrote: post #52
nimbius wrote: post #29

As a professional diesel mechanic, I find most of the points in this article pretty difficult to understand outside the context of, say, Hollywood? or maybe iPhones? Do programmers really have to show this kind of reckless drive? This hasnt been a thing in tradecraft since...forever i dont think...and if it is, its punished pretty severely. An example: if im rebuilding the idler and pitman assembly on a fourteen ton…

Tradespeople will unionize and collectively bargain. Technology types generally don't do this.

> Technology types generally don't do this.

And the rationale isn't too different from this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ONKkoiszVSs&t=409

Re: How hustle culture took over advertising

#88

Post by sosuke »

To answer some of the questions as to why people do this. To try to get ahead. To try and advance. To move up. If you don't hustle, if you aren't trying to advance then how could you ever expect to move up financially?

Think of it in the small scale at a fast food joint. You bus tables, sweep etc. If you do just that you can do just that forever. You can also do more to try and get promoted. You can also do less and get fired. If you want more money per paycheck then you'll want to get promoted. To get promoted you have to hustle. You have to do more. No one will give it to you if you weren't already born into it.

Re: How hustle culture took over advertising

#89

Post by guitarbill »

esotericn wrote: post #71
apatters wrote: post #24

I'm American but I've lived overseas for nearly a decade, and I hardly ever go back. In recent years when I meet other Americans who are visiting my city, I often get this vague feeling that they're just trying too hard in one way or another. Maybe they're working too hard, or trying too hard to impress someone, or get attention, or assert themselves. I don't know if I've changed or if America is changed or if it's s…

I don't see this as being unique to the US. It's pretty similar in London (UK), for example. Here, it's about the fact that most people are hilariously, almost comically underpaid. The cheapest 1 bedroom flat I can find within an hour of the centre is going to be in the ballpark of 200K. So if you don't have established wealth, or earn at least 50K (4x mortgage), you're a prole. Unsurprisingly, people don't want to b…

London is a special kind of hell. Of course, you can have a meaningful and fulfilled life outside of London, but maybe unsurprisingly for a city built on finance (in the modern area?), it attracts people who can only think of money, not cost. Or, for those less driven, maybe moving to London is the equivalent of going to uni, you do it because everybody else is and you don't have a better plan. IDK, I didn't get it and still don't.

For Americans, I imagine NYC or LA is similar. The traffic alone would keep me out of LA.

Re: How hustle culture took over advertising

#90

Post by TeMPOraL »

ovi256 wrote: post #49
TeMPOraL wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is where it turns into tragedy of the commons. If every grocery store has cantaloupes year-round, they need to figure out something else to advertise, or - if they're all selling the same stuff - they should all shut up. Instead, someone will always start the advertising arms race, and suddenly everyone has to waste time and Earth's natural resources on actions that roughly cancel each other out.

>actions that roughly cancel each other out Welcome to the 'the service industry is a job program for the middle class' view. It's not a rosy one, and the predictions it makes even less so.

I've been entertaining that view for a long time now wrt. advertising, but what other service job has the same characteristics? Namely, that your works serves mostly to undo the results of your peers' work, and vice versa?
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