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In Amazon Go, no one thinks I'm stealing

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Re: In Amazon Go, no one thinks I'm stealing

#81

Post by salvar »

InclinedPlane wrote: post #20
esotericn wrote: post #8

Profiling sucks. In this case though, I'd say you're simply trading one injustice for another. You go from the ephemeral experience of having a few underpaid lackeys mistrust you, to having an eternal database of everything you buy owned by a third party. Then again, it's getting pretty ridiculous everywhere. The local supermarkets around me - they've gradually stripped real checkout operators away and replaced them…

Not only that but you also raise the requirements for grocery / department store shopping. In principle all you need to shop at most stores is cash and being able to get to the physical location of the store. With Amazon Go you need a smartphone with a data plan, an amazon account, and a bank account. Even in America not everyone has all of those, or even any one of those. I personally spent a few years as an adult w…

This looks like a strawman. I didn't see anyone claim that all shopping experiences everywhere should be replaced with this. Amazon Go definitely requires you to have a bunch of things many people don't have access to, and can amount to a "you must be rich to use this store" sign.

But that doesn't change any of what the article described.

Re: In Amazon Go, no one thinks I'm stealing

#82

Post by jowsie »

expathacker wrote: post #63

This reminds me somewhat of a non-profit retail store in San Francisco where I volunteered to pay off a pile of parking tickets. The store itself sold local artisanal housewares to help support a number of local AIDS/HIV-related charities. What really made a lasting impression on me was their loss-prevention training me was that not everybody is strong enough to carry an item, a bag, or push a cart while shopping. Wh…

Is simply sticking something in your pocket enough reason for them to kick off? In the UK at least I've been shoving stuff in hoodie pockets if I can't carry it all in my hands. You might occasionally get funny looks but no one has said anything to me, or the other people I know that do it.

Re: In Amazon Go, no one thinks I'm stealing

#83

Post by salvar »

bfung wrote: post #75
moonka wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>However, by removing a lot of humans from the shopping interactions, it allows the removed humans to never learn from their mistakes, to stay isolated in their own views. Relying on shopping interactions to teach these humans places a huge burden on the people they make these mistakes on. Sometimes I'm not looking to be a teachable moment, sometimes I just want to get my shopping done (or get a cab etc).

Sure, not every moment in life is a teachable or eureka moment. But the more chances people have to interact, the more chances to gain a better understanding of each other. Without even the opportunity to interact, that divide and chance to learn is zero. Maybe the 1 out of 100 times, you go to the supermarket, and are feeling good, and feel like just saying hi and do some small talk to the cashier... while it may no…

I agree with the benefits of what you describe in the last paragraph. But for these opportunities for people to learn by realizing that their unfair profiling of customers based on the color of their skin is wrong... at what point do you consider the cost of the profilee in enduring these teachable moments again and again and again through their life?

Re: In Amazon Go, no one thinks I'm stealing

#84

Post by [deleted] »

pentae wrote: post #25
andrew_ wrote: post #22

Tossing in my own anecdotal experience: I worked in Loss Prevention (plain clothes security) for a major midwest retail chain, within 10 miles of a major metropolitan city for several years. We absolutely profiled customers. The catch is that we profiled teenagers of the Caucasian persuasion. Why? Because they were the folks most likely to try and lift goods. Folks wearing unnecessarily baggy clothing (think more tha…

Of course, if you'd swapped out the word "Caucasian" for "African American" your post would be downvoted and you'd be called a racist. But because we're DEFINITELY not racist mentioning you targeted white people is totally fine in 2018.

[deleted]

Re: In Amazon Go, no one thinks I'm stealing

#85

Post by paulie_a »

andrew_ wrote: post #22

Tossing in my own anecdotal experience: I worked in Loss Prevention (plain clothes security) for a major midwest retail chain, within 10 miles of a major metropolitan city for several years. We absolutely profiled customers. The catch is that we profiled teenagers of the Caucasian persuasion. Why? Because they were the folks most likely to try and lift goods. Folks wearing unnecessarily baggy clothing (think more tha…

Was the eldery a significant group? This is anecdotal but I've consistently heard from cops and even a couple of police chiefs that theft is pretty common in that demographic.

Re: In Amazon Go, no one thinks I'm stealing

#86

Post by jowsie »

freeone3000 wrote: post #74
tyfon wrote: post #47

I wonder how long it will take before they employ regression algorithms to screen those entering the shop and deny those deemed "not safe". They would probably be like the police crime prevention algorithms in that they would inherently be biased towards the same prejudices as the humans in such jobs. Profile a specific group of people and that group will be arrested more than those not in that group and the algorith…

You need to scan an amazon app generated QR code to enter. Your credit card is chargeable once you enter, it's impossible to steal.

Well, it's not impossible. People have done it.

Re: In Amazon Go, no one thinks I'm stealing

#87

Post by DanBC »

jowsie wrote: post #82
expathacker wrote: post #63

This reminds me somewhat of a non-profit retail store in San Francisco where I volunteered to pay off a pile of parking tickets. The store itself sold local artisanal housewares to help support a number of local AIDS/HIV-related charities. What really made a lasting impression on me was their loss-prevention training me was that not everybody is strong enough to carry an item, a bag, or push a cart while shopping. Wh…

Is simply sticking something in your pocket enough reason for them to kick off? In the UK at least I've been shoving stuff in hoodie pockets if I can't carry it all in my hands. You might occasionally get funny looks but no one has said anything to me, or the other people I know that do it.

In England and Wales you haven't completed the offence until you walk out the store. (And even then you need to have dishonestly appropriated the item, not just forgotten it's in a pocket).

So you might have a guard following you around but they shouldn't be doing much more until you leave.

Re: In Amazon Go, no one thinks I'm stealing

#88

Post by jowsie »

Nasrudith wrote: post #39
InclinedPlane wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not only that but you also raise the requirements for grocery / department store shopping. In principle all you need to shop at most stores is cash and being able to get to the physical location of the store. With Amazon Go you need a smartphone with a data plan, an amazon account, and a bank account. Even in America not everyone has all of those, or even any one of those. I personally spent a few years as an adult w…

While fiscal underserving remains a problem there are $20 burner phones which are smartphones. Gift cards and prepaids can be used as well by those without. An extra obstacle certainly but one that can be overcome surprisingly easily.

How do you purchase the cheap smart phone and activate the gift card when you can't get in the shop in the first place?

Re: In Amazon Go, no one thinks I'm stealing

#89

Post by ntlk »

erikb wrote: post #41

I'm not sure if discriminating against super market employees is the right way to fight discrimination. The good things I can see with a machine super market: - It can be open 24/7 without exploiting its employees - It can be almost fully stocked all the time - They don't have an excuse to "coicidentally misplace" a $1.50 label at a product that in the end costs $2.99 (every shop does this in the area where I live)

If the shop is open 24/7 someone still needs to stock it, clean it and keep an eye on it. It doesn’t suddenly require no staff just because there are no tills.

Re: In Amazon Go, no one thinks I'm stealing

#90

Post by Broken_Hippo »

scarejunba wrote: post #76
InclinedPlane wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not only that but you also raise the requirements for grocery / department store shopping. In principle all you need to shop at most stores is cash and being able to get to the physical location of the store. With Amazon Go you need a smartphone with a data plan, an amazon account, and a bank account. Even in America not everyone has all of those, or even any one of those. I personally spent a few years as an adult w…

Dude, Amazon owns Whole Foods. The "you have to have money to use this store" market already exists.

There is a difference between "you have to have money to use this store" to "you have to have money plus these bells and whistles to use this store".

You can be poor and use whole foods once in a while. You can use cash at whole foods. You don't need a modern cell phone, a data plan, and a credit card on file to use whole foods. I'm pretty sure you can use food stamps at whole foods. You don't need a proper bank account. And so on.

Weirdly, you don't really need these things to shop at amazon either. All you need is a pre-paid card, a gift card, and a bit of internet access (at the library). You an use someone else's address to ship things to if necessary.

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