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A new study says services like Uber and Lyft are causing urban traffic woes

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Re: A new study says services like Uber and Lyft are causing urban traffic woes

#81

Post by fipple »

NickBusey wrote: post #18

>> .. when people use a ride-hailing company, they are opting to do so rather than take public transportation, walk or bike. They generally are not choosing between hailing and driving themselves. This doesn't seem correct to me. If I can ride my bike or walk somewhere, I will do that pretty much every time. The only time I ever consider an Uber or Lyft is if the distance is too far to bike, and I would rather not dr…

Here’s a counterpart: I will take whatever transport form requires the least amount of walking and is most comfortable. I don’t usually care what it costs, within reason.

Re: A new study says services like Uber and Lyft are causing urban traffic woes

#82

Post by tzury »

VIA is the answer!

    Via is an on-demand transit system that takes multiple 
    passengers heading in the same direction and books them 
    into a shared vehicle. Think of Via as a bus that’s smart 
    enough to come when you want it and where you want it...
https://ridewithvia.com/

and

https://www.viavan.com/

Re: A new study says services like Uber and Lyft are causing urban traffic woes

#83

Post by dionidium »

foldr wrote: post #80
lotsofpulp wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One of the major benefits in some cities of Uber/Lyft over public transportation is not risking interaction with thementally ill, inebriated, panhandlers, or otherwise dangerous people (like the dancers on the NYC subway).

> (like the dancers on the NYC subway). Sharing a subway car with dancers isn't anywhere near as dangerous as sharing a road with other vehicles.

I've made arguments like this one before, too, but I think I've finally accepted their pointlessness. Humans beings are, well, human beings, not emotionless risk-calculators. We feel less safe around aggressive subway dancers than we do in an Uber. And because we're human beings, those feelings matter.

You're not going to logic humanity out of it.

It's not an education problem, either. People will still feel this way even once they're aware of the numbers, because we evolved in an environment that rewarded avoiding aggressive strangers and also in which automobiles did not exist.

Re: A new study says services like Uber and Lyft are causing urban traffic woes

#84

Post by kazinator »

vkou wrote: post #62
kazinator wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Gas tax does not go nearly enough of the way to paying for infrastructure. Most road maintenance is paid for by property and income taxes. Ride hailing drivers pay income tax.

So do I, but my income doesn't come with direct traffic congestion and road wear externalities.

And of course none of your income is spent on any groceries or other goods that arrive by truck. Motor vehicles could disappear overnight without a single inconvenience to you.

Re: A new study says services like Uber and Lyft are causing urban traffic woes

#85

Post by chuckgreenman »

I love public transit, when I was living in the Minneapolis / Saint Paul area I all most never used ride sharing apps, and used the metro every day to commute. But those services aren't free. The MS/SP system is considered world class but they have a 30% farebox recovery ratio. It costs the public a lot of money to maintain that system.

In Cincinnati, the public transit system is terrible. The buses don't run on schedule, our light rail route is incredibly short. I use ride sharing services here a lot more as a result.

Even if we do move traffic into public transit systems, that isn't going to magically shrink the costs of DOT departments around the nation. We'll just be subsidizing something else.

Re: A new study says services like Uber and Lyft are causing urban traffic woes

#86

Post by ghaff »

pyrophane wrote: post #41
NickBusey wrote: post #18

>> .. when people use a ride-hailing company, they are opting to do so rather than take public transportation, walk or bike. They generally are not choosing between hailing and driving themselves. This doesn't seem correct to me. If I can ride my bike or walk somewhere, I will do that pretty much every time. The only time I ever consider an Uber or Lyft is if the distance is too far to bike, and I would rather not dr…

I know people like you, but I also know people who are very much not like you. The latter sort are kind of lazy, at least when it comes to getting around, and they will frequently opt for whatever means of conveyance involves the least effort on their part.

I'm with you. I travel a great deal and, scheduled car to and from my airport aside, I don't take taxis/Ubers all that often. I take public transportation and walk a fair bit unless I have some compelling reason to get a taxi/Uber. (And sometimes I rent when I'm covering bigger distances.)

But I'd say that most folks I work with have a reflex to get an Uber when they're going any distance at all.

Re: A new study says services like Uber and Lyft are causing urban traffic woes

#87

Post by chimeracoder »

lotsofpulp wrote: post #27
cbhl wrote: post #7

There's a simple solution to this -- buses! We don't even need public tax dollars to pay for them. There were plenty of startups that wanted to run "Uber, but with a bus instead of a Car" and they all died because of regulation from the cities. Hell, Google (and other tech companies) will happily pay for its own buses to reduce VMT, but taking away street parking to add bus stops is political suicide in San Francisco…

One of the major benefits in some cities of Uber/Lyft over public transportation is not risking interaction with thementally ill, inebriated, panhandlers, or otherwise dangerous people (like the dancers on the NYC subway).

> or otherwise dangerous people (like the dancers on the NYC subway).

...what did the dancers ever do to you?

Re: A new study says services like Uber and Lyft are causing urban traffic woes

#88

Post by gammateam »

nine_k wrote: post #68
lewis500 wrote: post #15

I don’t understand why this study is receiving so much attention. It’s not peer reviewed. It doesn’t contain actual data collection (the estimates are all extrapolated in a way the author considers reasonable, not measured data from traffic detectors or surveys). Schaller is not a researcher or engineer, but a consultant mainly working for taxi regulation. That doesn’t mean it’s wrong. But I’m surprised the study get…

Maybe some people, especially urban-based, just like the anti-car narrative, so they link to it as to something that confirms their favorite POV. I bet city officials in most places don't like ride-hailing companies, too, so they would gladly link to something like this, for the same reason. Maybe every other reader would look at it and say: "Hey, this has no data, and the author's position produces an obvious confli…

Why does it have to be an anti-car narrative, or something insidious

Why do you think limited-supply medallion systems existed in the first place? Come on this is just classic "I forgot why these regulations existed and now a 100 year old problem is being recreated"

A form of limited licensing for ride-hailing companies can exist without any of the inputs from the taxicab lobby and work out really well.

Re: A new study says services like Uber and Lyft are causing urban traffic woes

#89

Post by WisNorCan »

This should not surprise anyone.

As the price of a service decreases, consumption increases. So, we should expect that more people are taking taxi rides that would otherwise commute in different ways (e.g. walking or taking the bus). If we extrapolate to self-driving cars where the cost comes down by about 2/3, it is easy to see a tragedy of the commons situation where roads in major cities are saturated with vehicles.

This is where government intervention is required. This can be done either through limiting vehicle permits (which NYC introduced) or other forms of taxes (e.g. congestion taxes).

Re: A new study says services like Uber and Lyft are causing urban traffic woes

#90

Post by foldr »

dionidium wrote: post #83
foldr wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> (like the dancers on the NYC subway). Sharing a subway car with dancers isn't anywhere near as dangerous as sharing a road with other vehicles.

I've made arguments like this one before, too, but I think I've finally accepted their pointlessness. Humans beings are, well, human beings, not emotionless risk-calculators. We feel less safe around aggressive subway dancers than we do in an Uber. And because we're human beings, those feelings matter. You're not going to logic humanity out of it. It's not an education problem, either. People will still feel this way…

Yes, I know, but it's still worth noting that subway dancers aren't actually "dangerous" on any sensible definition of the term.

The feelings that you mention are far from universal and significantly educable. I find subway dancers mildly irritating. They've never caused me to fear for my safety.

>we evolved in an environment that rewarded avoiding aggressive strangers and also in which automobiles did not exist.

People from remote tribes who've never seen an automobile are practically scared to death when they first set foot in a city. Not being scared by cars isn't in any way the default attitude for a human to have -- quite the opposite. But we get used to cars. You can also get used to people dancing on the subway.

Also, subway dancers aren't "aggressive", in my experience at least.

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