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The 'Irrational' Way Humans Interact With Dentists

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Re: The 'Irrational' Way Humans Interact With Dentists

#81
While I was in college, I admittedly went ~5 years without seeing a dentist.

When I graduated and got dental insurance, I immediately googled for "laser dentistry" in my area (having heard about it from my girlfriend). I chose the dentist with the highest ratings (well, one of the only dentists with any ratings at all).

Interesting fact: in 5 years, I apparently accumulated 5 cavities, none of them very serious. I got all 5 filled in under an hour, with no anesthetic whatsoever. Then, when I went for my checkup 6 months later, I had 2 new cavities. (Btw, if anyone is wondering, there is a low-power laser that reflects off your tooth enamel based on tooth density to determine which teeth need attention, and then there is a different high-power laser that actually gets rid of the decay).

Being my usual skeptic self, I started wondering if dentists didn't embellish reality a bit (or even create cavities while they're in there... ok, even I'm not that cynical, but I'd be lying if I said the thought didn't occur). Then again, my dietary and health habits probably did change considerably that first year after graduation.

In the end, I trust this particular dentist for a couple reasons.

1. He readily explains every step of every procedure he's doing, including how the tools work and why they work, even edge cases in which they wouldn't work. And he does so with enjoyment, like it's pleasant for him to have a patient interested in what he does. This appeals to the engineer in me.

2. He has said things to me like, "Well let's wait and see on that tooth. There's no reason we need to do anything to it just yet, it doesn't seem to be getting any worse." Also, when doing the laser fillings, he's asked, "Do you want anesthetic?" I responded, "do you think I need it?" And his answer: "Well, we can start without it, and then do it if things get too painful. No reason to numb you up and mess up your day if not necessary." Realizing that he'd get more money from me and my insurance if he used anesthetic, this alignment of interests was refreshing.

3. Given that every procedure I've had with him has been without anesthetic, I can say with certainty that he is extremely attentive to any pain I may have. He notices immediately if I wince at all, and makes adjustments accordingly, like turning down the power of the laser.

At the end of the day, I pay him for peace of mind, and he delivers.

Re: The 'Irrational' Way Humans Interact With Dentists

#82
post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

“Plus, they hold up an x-ray and say ‘This is …’ not ‘This might be …’.” Ha! My dentist actually said ‘This might be …’ as we looked together at a X-ray. He said that we could be looking at very, very early caries or just a shadow and that X-ray images are always tricky. I will be X-rayed again at the next routine checkup to see if anything has changed. Incidentally, how common are X-rays in the US? It sounds like th…

Standard practice here in the US is a full mouth x-ray about once every 12-18 months, because that's what insurance will pay for. (and my dentist is the same way -- he'll sit down with an x-ray and sometimes photos as well, and go over "OK, this might be the beginning of a cavity, or it might just be a stain from drinking tea/coffee...")

So that’s why US healthcare costs are so inflated ;-)

Re: The 'Irrational' Way Humans Interact With Dentists

#83
post #2

This article got me thinking about a trip to the dentist I had a few years ago. From when I was 5-18 years old I had the same dentist and between ages 13-18 I had a really impeccable record when it came to not having cavities. Then, when I came back from my first semester of college I had to switch from my old dentist (who specialized in children/teenagers) to a new one. On my first visit, he identified something lik…

The story I've always heard about this is that as you grow older, your immune system becomes less active in defending your teeth, and so you have to correspondingly brush more often to maintain teeth health. So if you're brushing the same amount as you were as a teenager, you will get more cavities. I don't have a citation though.

Re: The 'Irrational' Way Humans Interact With Dentists

#84
post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When I changed dentist after University the new dentist made an official complaint about the standard of work of the previous one (who I had been with since an early age). For a while my mouth was effectively "Exhibit A" in some kind of professional complaints process.

Given the content of the OP, is it possible that the problem wasn't so bad, that this was all a marketing device, building the relationship between you and the new dentist?

No it definitely wasn't that - I had to go to an "official" dentist who had a look as well (I forget which obscure branch of the UK civil service they belonged to).

Re: The 'Irrational' Way Humans Interact With Dentists

#86
post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My wife is a dentist. I'll go ahead and call bullshit on this. The no-cavity-plan isn't some secret. It's no refined sugars in your diet and brushing & flossing religiously. (It's speculated that Neanderthal didn't get cavities. Ever. They had no refined sugar in their diet for the caries to feed on. They all did have horrible gingivitis and halitosis, though.) It's the same way that the not-a-fatass plan isn't a sec…

Who said anything about a "secret"? You can certainly google the dentist's name and read his account of his treatment by the dental association (this was back in the 70s if I remember right). I doubt he was making things up. I believe that when one of his patients came and tested with low oral bacterial count, the visit was free.

He seems to be nice, honest, and intelligent, if a little egoistic, from his answers in this interview: http://www.motherearthnews.com/Nature-Community/1979-03-01/D...

He himself clarifies that there is nothing magical about this system: "We aren't claiming to have come up with a revolutionary system ... we're not pushing any "miracle" drugs or anything like that, We are simply offering a commonsense approach to dental health, and the likes of that has never been available to the American people before. Oramedics is nothing more and nothing less than the simplest route to a disease-free oral ecology. And I think that anyone who is interested in regaining control over his or her life and body will surely want to know about it."

Re: The 'Irrational' Way Humans Interact With Dentists

#88
post #3

Areas like this (essentially, a complex combination of psychology combined with differing motivations along with a little information disparity for good measure) could be an interesting opening for a startup. If you could get over the admittedly uncomfortable social dynamic of implying a lack of competence in your dentist, you could ask them to send your Xrays over to "2ndopinion.com" where trained and certified dent…

I just came here to post the same, I think that could actually work. Maybe there's some other value add that could be done that would make it not just a straight "I don't trust your opinion" thing. Like maybe it's useful to have these things stored so you can see something or other over time. The second use doesn't need to be hugely useful, it's just a polite fiction for the patient-dentist interface :)

Re: The 'Irrational' Way Humans Interact With Dentists

#89
post #50

I have about 5 dentists in my immediate family (grandfather, dad, dad's wife, aunt and uncle). My dad is the head of the Perio department in the Hadassah Dental School in Jerusalem. Naturally, I had my teeth checked twice a year like clockwork all my life. I have some gum issues, but never needed a filling. 6 month after moving to the bay area, I went to a local dentist for general checkup. He used the "laser thingy"…

Since you have so many dentists in your family, can you (or anyone else here) comment on the cost of dental care? Every time I go, I am absolutely floored by the prices. I haven't been for several years now as I've had no pain requiring immediate attention. My last experience with dentists was getting a tooth that had cracked in half examined. At that point I had some pain, but I use sensodyne toothpaste so it seems…

The answer to your question about working families is that they simply wouldn't go because of the cost. The last time I had any dental work done (root canal + crown) I paid over $1k total, and that was WITH dental insurance. Teeth or rent - choose one.

Re: The 'Irrational' Way Humans Interact With Dentists

#90
post #68

Misaligned incentives. You shouldn't pay your programmers to fix bugs or lay down lines of code, but to produce working software. You shouldn't pay your doctor to treat you, but to make and keep you well. You shouldn't pay your mechanic to fix things, but to make your car run. And you shouldn't pay your dentist to fill cavities, but to keep your teeth healthy. The DoD calls it performance based logistics. We build a…

How about using one dentist to recommend what work needs to be done, and checking the quality, and using another dentist to carry out the work?
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