I'd alternate going to my dentist and my girlfriend's dentist. My dentist always wanted to replace some of my fillings. My girlfriend's dentist never mentioned it. Once I even asked before the exam if my fillings needed to be replaced, telling her that another dentist said a few were bad. The final verdict: I was fine. I never went back to my dentist.
The 'Irrational' Way Humans Interact With Dentists
71–80 of 93 posts
Re: The 'Irrational' Way Humans Interact With Dentists
#72I have about 5 dentists in my immediate family (grandfather, dad, dad's wife, aunt and uncle). My dad is the head of the Perio department in the Hadassah Dental School in Jerusalem. Naturally, I had my teeth checked twice a year like clockwork all my life. I have some gum issues, but never needed a filling. 6 month after moving to the bay area, I went to a local dentist for general checkup. He used the "laser thingy"…
Since you have so many dentists in your family, can you (or anyone else here) comment on the cost of dental care?
Every time I go, I am absolutely floored by the prices. I haven't been for several years now as I've had no pain requiring immediate attention.
My last experience with dentists was getting a tooth that had cracked in half examined. At that point I had some pain, but I use sensodyne toothpaste so it seems to have healed over the crack. I can't recall the exact numbers, but I first had my regular dentist look at it, who then sent me to a specialist (oral surgeon I believe). I seem to recall the combined charge of these two visits was almost $1000 (this is in Canada, fwiw). Total time in chair was far less than 30 minutes....I recall calculating the hourly cost was >$2000/hour. The estimate on "building the tooth back up" (not pulling and replacing with ceramic) was around $3000-$3500 (for I think around 45 minutes work).
Teeth cleaning is less, but on an hourly basis, it is just ridiculous. And of course it seems to always come with the unrequested inspection by the dentist, I just can't fathom how working class families without insurance can afford this....even for the parents, let alone their kids!
I know they have some expensive machinery to pay for, but I just can't see how these prices are justified in any way. Yes, I know prices are "set by the market", but I have never encountered any dentists that vary much in price, style of delivery, or services offered. I have also never encountered a profession so secretive about its prices. Receptionists never have a clue about what the price range would be to cap a tooth for example, it always "depends".
It would seem to me that doctors would likely have to take much more schooling, and they certainly have more advancements in their industry to keep up with, but in Canada at least, it is fairly common for a family doctor to make $150 to $200k per year. I reckon a dentist could easily make that in 3 months: $500/hour * 160 hrs/month * 3 months = $240,000. Yes, this is a simplistic calculation, ignoring the 4 dental hygienists working for him earning him $50/hr profit, possibly not 160 hrs/month billable (but equally possible billing equivalent of 260 hrs/month if he structures his staff right), must rent office and lease equipment, receptionist, etc etc....but you get the idea.
To me, something about the whole industry just doesn't seem right. It smells to me of collusion to some degree, but this is just pure speculation.
One other related thing I have noticed (anecdotally)....whenever you go to a dentist or doctor/clinic in Canada, there is always a big lineup, usually with at least a half hour wait, even with an appointment. The times I have visited a dental or medical office overseas (Thailand and Japan), there were either very short wait times, or I was literally the only person there....which makes me suspect the medical and dental associations here may be restricting the number of new applicants into schools, in order to control the supply of their services, and therefore the price.
Anyways, can anyone with some actual knowledge of the field could comment on my pure speculation?
Re: The 'Irrational' Way Humans Interact With Dentists
#73A dentist in Michigan (Robert Nara) came up with a way for his patients to avoid all cavities. The state dental association had his license revoked or imprisoned or something. A threat to their summer homes and boats I guess.
I've tried his approach for a few years and so far no cavities. It comprises a hygiene regime designed to minimize the oral bacteria load by brushing immediate after eating and using salt water rinses.
Re: The 'Irrational' Way Humans Interact With Dentists
#74A dentist in Michigan (Robert Nara) came up with a way for his patients to avoid all cavities. The state dental association had his license revoked or imprisoned or something. A threat to their summer homes and boats I guess. I've tried his approach for a few years and so far no cavities. It comprises a hygiene regime designed to minimize the oral bacteria load by brushing immediate after eating and using salt water…
My wife is a dentist. I'll go ahead and call bullshit on this. The no-cavity-plan isn't some secret. It's no refined sugars in your diet and brushing & flossing religiously. (It's speculated that Neanderthal didn't get cavities. Ever. They had no refined sugar in their diet for the caries to feed on. They all did have horrible gingivitis and halitosis, though.)
It's the same way that the not-a-fatass plan isn't a secret, but most of this country (the US) is obese.
Re: The 'Irrational' Way Humans Interact With Dentists
#75Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Also, every filling I've ever had never came as a result of actual pain or discomfort, they only occurred because I went in for a regular six-month checkup. FWIW, I've heard that by the time you have pain or discomfort in association with a cavity, it means it has reached the nerve, which indicates a root canal at that point, rather than a filling. So, getting cavities filled before they hurt is important.
That seems inconsistent with my experience, I've never had a root canal in my life, but have had several sore teeth that resulted in a filling. Any well informed people care to comment?
I'm not a dentist, but I've had more dental work than I'm happy about and I listened to the explanations. (Advice to kids, not brushing your teeth is a really stupid piece of teenage rebellion. You'll have a lifetime to regret it.)
When you have a cavity, cold things that get into your tooth can set off the nerve and your teeth become sensitive. (If it gets worse you respond to heat as well.) This can be corrected with a filling. There are other causes of sensitivity as well, ask your dentist if you're affected.
When the cavity becomes bad enough that it touches the nerve, the nerve gets infected and you get intense pain. Antibiotics can temporarily help, but now you need a root canal.
If the structure of the tooth is compromised, or if the cavity cannot be operated on (happened to me with a cavity behind my back molar, under the gum - caused by damage from my wisdom teeth), then you need to lose the tooth. If your mouth is in good enough shape then modern dentistry allows them to fill in the hole with powdered cow bone, that will become real bone, into which a post can be driven and a fake tooth created.
Before dentistry, people didn't have any of this. What would happen is that their teeth would get to the point of needing a root canal, and then the pain would quickly become so bad that they'd do anything to make it stop. Anything was typically something like, Tie this string around the tooth, let me tie the other end to a door and slam it. People would start losing teeth around 20, and have lost all of them by 40 or so. Then they'd get dentures.
We still need dentures. But it happens much later in life than it used to. Some people never get them. This is a good thing.
A note about dentists. Dentists go to seminars on how to drum up business. There are a lot of questionable things they do. But if you show up with a mouth full of real problems, the competent ones should be able to prioritize them, coming up with a plan, and progressively fixing just what insurance will cover in each time period. At least that was my experience when I began going to dentists again after I could afford it.
Re: The 'Irrational' Way Humans Interact With Dentists
#76Reading this while sitting in a chair waiting for four cavities to be filled might not have been the smartest move.
I think it is the smartest move, as long as you act on the information properly.
Re: The 'Irrational' Way Humans Interact With Dentists
#77A dentist in Michigan (Robert Nara) came up with a way for his patients to avoid all cavities. The state dental association had his license revoked or imprisoned or something. A threat to their summer homes and boats I guess. I've tried his approach for a few years and so far no cavities. It comprises a hygiene regime designed to minimize the oral bacteria load by brushing immediate after eating and using salt water…
My wife is a dentist. I'll go ahead and call bullshit on this. The no-cavity-plan isn't some secret. It's no refined sugars in your diet and brushing & flossing religiously. (It's speculated that Neanderthal didn't get cavities. Ever. They had no refined sugar in their diet for the caries to feed on. They all did have horrible gingivitis and halitosis, though.) It's the same way that the not-a-fatass plan isn't a sec…
Who said anything about a "secret"?
You can certainly google the dentist's name and read his account of his treatment by the dental association (this was back in the 70s if I remember right). I doubt he was making things up. I believe that when one of his patients came and tested with low oral bacterial count, the visit was free.
Re: The 'Irrational' Way Humans Interact With Dentists
#78"Cognitive dissonance is the idea that when people do something painful they become more committed to the goal." No. Cognitive dissonance is the pain caused by having two contradictory ideas at once. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cognitive_dissonance
...which usually leads to a change in understanding or explanation to rectify the conflict. In this case, the cognitive dissonance, paying a large amount of money (by necessity) for a service of unknown quality, is resolved by commitment to the resolutive idea that the service is of very high quality and is deserving of the high price.
Yes, the wording is technically incorrect, but the common usage of "cognitive dissonance" is generally about practical implications, like this.
Re: The 'Irrational' Way Humans Interact With Dentists
#79Earlier quoted context omitted.
When I changed dentist after University the new dentist made an official complaint about the standard of work of the previous one (who I had been with since an early age). For a while my mouth was effectively "Exhibit A" in some kind of professional complaints process.
Given the content of the OP, is it possible that the problem wasn't so bad, that this was all a marketing device, building the relationship between you and the new dentist?
Launching an official complaint to a medical board as a marketing ploy? I'm guessing that would backfire hard.
Re: The 'Irrational' Way Humans Interact With Dentists
#80Earlier quoted context omitted.
Do you have any pointers on what to avoid?
The main areas I evaluate are: - technique (one of the most important, but generally difficult to interpret without some tuition. However some good indicators are time spent in mouth during procedures, how prepared is the dentist (hunting for tools is worrisome), level of pain, number of times work has had to be fixed) - hygiene (appropriate glove changing, mask, tool use and sterilization). The most obvious things I…
Doesn't add much to the conversation, but thanks for taking the time to write that up :)