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The Dangers of Train Yards, Through the Eyes of Railroad Employees

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81–90 of 106 posts

Re: The Dangers of Train Yards, Through the Eyes of Railroad Employees

#81
post #6

Because of signal sighting rules in the UK, we experienced a lot of trouble upgrading lines to higher speed. All of a sudden, that signal that you could see for 10 seconds could now only be seen for 8 due to a bridge or whatever. Muchos dollars relocating signals and in some places not being able to increase the line speed at all. Boring but very real reasons why we "can't just update things"

The DOT here just updated the signaling at some road intersections and I've really appreciated the better visibility.

Re: The Dangers of Train Yards, Through the Eyes of Railroad Employees

#82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> 5mph would take nearly 1000' to bring to an "emergency" stop. That seems far fetched. 1000' is a long way at 5mph. The number of engines doesn't matter. Each car has its own brakes in an emergency. Cut pressure in the line and every car will brake itself. Perhaps they meant situations involving hills, not uncommon for ore trains heading from mines.

A train's emergency braking system is somewhat sacrificial (using it can damage engines, cars, etc.) so you're probably correct. I'd say that in either case, most people who are not "train people" will dramatically underestimate the required stopping distance. The mass of a fully loaded train is surprisingly large.

This is true. A buddy of mine works for the engine and brake systems of trains. I was helping him install the new skid plates and bumper he ordered from 4WheelOnline for his Jeep when he mentions the critical points and headaches of maintaining the brake system of trains.

Re: The Dangers of Train Yards, Through the Eyes of Railroad Employees

#83
post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most British passenger trains are multiple units (and most British trains are passenger trains), so there's effectively little distinction between locomotive and rolling stock.

You have a cab at both ends. In between are just slave units. No cabs, even if they have motors.

it's normal for a train to be made up of multiple independent units[1], which are then coupled together to make a longer service

each unit has two cabs (one at each end)

a common configuration is a 12 coach train made up of 3 x 4-long-units, which would have 6 cabs

that's a lot of upgrading

[1]: http://extra.southernelectric.org.uk/news/southern/img/colin...

[2]: http://extra.southernelectric.org.uk/news/southern/img/colin...

Re: The Dangers of Train Yards, Through the Eyes of Railroad Employees

#84
post #9

I got a chance to drive a couple of different engines at the Plumas rail museum. And one of the things that does is help you internalize the amazing amount of mass and momentum a train carries around all the time. The engineer who was with us spoke of freight trains that were a hundred cars of iron ore that, even though they were travelling at only 5mph would take nearly 1000' to bring to an "emergency" stop. While I…

>> 5mph would take nearly 1000' to bring to an "emergency" stop. That seems far fetched. 1000' is a long way at 5mph. The number of engines doesn't matter. Each car has its own brakes in an emergency. Cut pressure in the line and every car will brake itself. Perhaps they meant situations involving hills, not uncommon for ore trains heading from mines.

"Shortly after 08:00 hrs on 8 November 2010, a passenger train running from London Charing Cross to Hastings failed to stop at Stonegate station in East Sussex. The train ran for a further 2.45 miles (3.94 km) with the emergency brake applied, passing the level crossing at Crowhurst Bridge before coming to a stop 3.22 miles (5.18 km) after first applying the brakes."

There's a whole sequence of events behind this, from the work to remove slippery leaves from rails, to the sand applied during braking if wheels are slipping, to the IT systems and management processes identifying why the train didn't have any sand. It's a fascinating 151 page report.

https://www.gov.uk/raib-reports/station-overrun-incident-at-... (PDF report linked at the bottom).

Re: The Dangers of Train Yards, Through the Eyes of Railroad Employees

#85
post #41
post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Eh, /r/watchpeopledie has taught me that heavy equipment will murder you in a violent fashion if you don't respect it.

I am amazed that such a subreddit exists, and yet cannot bring myself to watch it.

It also teaches you to never let kids near roads without hand holding or a leash.

Re: The Dangers of Train Yards, Through the Eyes of Railroad Employees

#86
post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are worried about trains separating.

Even more if you have distributed power. A train can separate, and both halves can keep moving.

That's not an actual problem. You simply have 2 trains each broadcasts it's location. It's unexpected separations that might be a problem, but those are currently very rare and dealt with seperatly than static signals.

It's like you need to design a nuclear reactor to deal with an aircraft hitting it. You don't need to automate the response becase that's a rare situation.

Re: The Dangers of Train Yards, Through the Eyes of Railroad Employees

#87
post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even more if you have distributed power. A train can separate, and both halves can keep moving.

That's not an actual problem. You simply have 2 trains each broadcasts it's location. It's unexpected separations that might be a problem, but those are currently very rare and dealt with seperatly than static signals. It's like you need to design a nuclear reactor to deal with an aircraft hitting it. You don't need to automate the response becase that's a rare situation.

Plus with an actual separation the brakes will dump anyway and things will stop... well, not fast, but as quickly as they're capable of.

Re: The Dangers of Train Yards, Through the Eyes of Railroad Employees

#88
post #63
post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You don't want to lock up the wheels in an emergency. Locked wheels will skid on the rails, creating flat spots on the wheel. Later, if not repaired, the rotating wheel can hammer the rail at the flat spot, causing the rail to break.

It's an emergency. Who cares about flatspotted wheels? Parts can be replaced.

If you slip the wheels it will take longer to come to a stop. Sliding friction is always lower than static friction.

Re: The Dangers of Train Yards, Through the Eyes of Railroad Employees

#89
post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My experience is largely with bicycles (you're very aware of the energy input/output), automobiles, and boats, but thinking of moving vehicles as momentum systems , to which energy can be added or removed, is useful. On a bike, you maintain a steady speed by matching drag losses with the energy you're putting into the pedals. Braking and other actions cost you energy you've put in. For automobiles and trucks, added m…

> On a bike, you maintain a steady speed by matching drag losses with the energy you're putting into the pedals. Braking and other actions cost you energy you've put in. As does the frequent mistake of putting weight on the rear pedal. Realising this made me understand how little energy it really takes to keep a bicycle going, given the correct gear.

As does the frequent mistake of putting weight on the rear pedal.

I don't follow. What do you mean here?

Re: The Dangers of Train Yards, Through the Eyes of Railroad Employees

#90
post #9

I got a chance to drive a couple of different engines at the Plumas rail museum. And one of the things that does is help you internalize the amazing amount of mass and momentum a train carries around all the time. The engineer who was with us spoke of freight trains that were a hundred cars of iron ore that, even though they were travelling at only 5mph would take nearly 1000' to bring to an "emergency" stop. While I…

My experience is largely with bicycles (you're very aware of the energy input/output), automobiles, and boats, but thinking of moving vehicles as momentum systems , to which energy can be added or removed, is useful. On a bike, you maintain a steady speed by matching drag losses with the energy you're putting into the pedals. Braking and other actions cost you energy you've put in. For automobiles and trucks, added m…

Nothing is redundant on a bike, if anything it is the other way around, e.g. the brakes are the wheels, the frame is the suspension, the gear mechanisms are also there to keep the chain on, the passenger is the power source. Nothing can be taken away.

Bikes also pioneer high tech lightweight materials, only recently have 'bicycle grade' aluminium and carbon fibre been used on those boxy car things.

It is a whole different world of 'body on frame' engineering. I sometimes wonder what a train would look like if it was designed from the ground up by a bicycle designer with a Lotus engineer - 'add lightness'.

Some modern 'Tesla truck' tech could be thrown in too.

Imagine having half the amount of wheels, all of them actively powered and actively steered so no screeching on corners. The seats could be 'bus stop grade' and the monocoque being some extruded tube with the hand rails and luggage racks being structural elements, like a rally car roll cage.

The idea of Brunel's wide gauge was to have the wheels at the side of the train rather than have the train sit above the tracks. Imagine if you had independent suspension and stepped a metre down into the train for some super low centre of gravity. Or if that extra space below the train was a massive parcel area so goods were shifted on/off trains with some standard pallets that just slotted in, aircraft style. Think how much traffic could be shifted off the roads particularly if you ran the trains in mixed freight mode through the night.

Rollercoaster style tracks, particularly in tube lines could be used to slow down trains at stations and speed them up afterwards.

As for the doors, these could be integrated into the compartment ends, so rather than there being the normal interconnect between compartments the doors would slide back/fore to keep the train enclosed on corners without the usual rubbery bendy bit needed.

Add airbags and seatbelts, windows that open, a bit of wifi and you could have comfort and actual passenger safety.

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