Because of signal sighting rules in the UK, we experienced a lot of trouble upgrading lines to higher speed. All of a sudden, that signal that you could see for 10 seconds could now only be seen for 8 due to a bridge or whatever. Muchos dollars relocating signals and in some places not being able to increase the line speed at all. Boring but very real reasons why we "can't just update things"
The Dangers of Train Yards, Through the Eyes of Railroad Employees
81–90 of 106 posts
Re: The Dangers of Train Yards, Through the Eyes of Railroad Employees
#82Earlier quoted context omitted.
>> 5mph would take nearly 1000' to bring to an "emergency" stop. That seems far fetched. 1000' is a long way at 5mph. The number of engines doesn't matter. Each car has its own brakes in an emergency. Cut pressure in the line and every car will brake itself. Perhaps they meant situations involving hills, not uncommon for ore trains heading from mines.
A train's emergency braking system is somewhat sacrificial (using it can damage engines, cars, etc.) so you're probably correct. I'd say that in either case, most people who are not "train people" will dramatically underestimate the required stopping distance. The mass of a fully loaded train is surprisingly large.
Re: The Dangers of Train Yards, Through the Eyes of Railroad Employees
#83Earlier quoted context omitted.
Most British passenger trains are multiple units (and most British trains are passenger trains), so there's effectively little distinction between locomotive and rolling stock.
You have a cab at both ends. In between are just slave units. No cabs, even if they have motors.
each unit has two cabs (one at each end)
a common configuration is a 12 coach train made up of 3 x 4-long-units, which would have 6 cabs
that's a lot of upgrading
[1]: http://extra.southernelectric.org.uk/news/southern/img/colin...
[2]: http://extra.southernelectric.org.uk/news/southern/img/colin...
Re: The Dangers of Train Yards, Through the Eyes of Railroad Employees
#84I got a chance to drive a couple of different engines at the Plumas rail museum. And one of the things that does is help you internalize the amazing amount of mass and momentum a train carries around all the time. The engineer who was with us spoke of freight trains that were a hundred cars of iron ore that, even though they were travelling at only 5mph would take nearly 1000' to bring to an "emergency" stop. While I…
>> 5mph would take nearly 1000' to bring to an "emergency" stop. That seems far fetched. 1000' is a long way at 5mph. The number of engines doesn't matter. Each car has its own brakes in an emergency. Cut pressure in the line and every car will brake itself. Perhaps they meant situations involving hills, not uncommon for ore trains heading from mines.
There's a whole sequence of events behind this, from the work to remove slippery leaves from rails, to the sand applied during braking if wheels are slipping, to the IT systems and management processes identifying why the train didn't have any sand. It's a fascinating 151 page report.
https://www.gov.uk/raib-reports/station-overrun-incident-at-... (PDF report linked at the bottom).
Re: The Dangers of Train Yards, Through the Eyes of Railroad Employees
#85Earlier quoted context omitted.
Eh, /r/watchpeopledie has taught me that heavy equipment will murder you in a violent fashion if you don't respect it.
I am amazed that such a subreddit exists, and yet cannot bring myself to watch it.
Re: The Dangers of Train Yards, Through the Eyes of Railroad Employees
#86Earlier quoted context omitted.
You are worried about trains separating.
Even more if you have distributed power. A train can separate, and both halves can keep moving.
It's like you need to design a nuclear reactor to deal with an aircraft hitting it. You don't need to automate the response becase that's a rare situation.
Re: The Dangers of Train Yards, Through the Eyes of Railroad Employees
#87Earlier quoted context omitted.
Even more if you have distributed power. A train can separate, and both halves can keep moving.
That's not an actual problem. You simply have 2 trains each broadcasts it's location. It's unexpected separations that might be a problem, but those are currently very rare and dealt with seperatly than static signals. It's like you need to design a nuclear reactor to deal with an aircraft hitting it. You don't need to automate the response becase that's a rare situation.
Re: The Dangers of Train Yards, Through the Eyes of Railroad Employees
#88Earlier quoted context omitted.
You don't want to lock up the wheels in an emergency. Locked wheels will skid on the rails, creating flat spots on the wheel. Later, if not repaired, the rotating wheel can hammer the rail at the flat spot, causing the rail to break.
It's an emergency. Who cares about flatspotted wheels? Parts can be replaced.
Re: The Dangers of Train Yards, Through the Eyes of Railroad Employees
#89Earlier quoted context omitted.
My experience is largely with bicycles (you're very aware of the energy input/output), automobiles, and boats, but thinking of moving vehicles as momentum systems , to which energy can be added or removed, is useful. On a bike, you maintain a steady speed by matching drag losses with the energy you're putting into the pedals. Braking and other actions cost you energy you've put in. For automobiles and trucks, added m…
> On a bike, you maintain a steady speed by matching drag losses with the energy you're putting into the pedals. Braking and other actions cost you energy you've put in. As does the frequent mistake of putting weight on the rear pedal. Realising this made me understand how little energy it really takes to keep a bicycle going, given the correct gear.
I don't follow. What do you mean here?
Re: The Dangers of Train Yards, Through the Eyes of Railroad Employees
#90I got a chance to drive a couple of different engines at the Plumas rail museum. And one of the things that does is help you internalize the amazing amount of mass and momentum a train carries around all the time. The engineer who was with us spoke of freight trains that were a hundred cars of iron ore that, even though they were travelling at only 5mph would take nearly 1000' to bring to an "emergency" stop. While I…
My experience is largely with bicycles (you're very aware of the energy input/output), automobiles, and boats, but thinking of moving vehicles as momentum systems , to which energy can be added or removed, is useful. On a bike, you maintain a steady speed by matching drag losses with the energy you're putting into the pedals. Braking and other actions cost you energy you've put in. For automobiles and trucks, added m…
Bikes also pioneer high tech lightweight materials, only recently have 'bicycle grade' aluminium and carbon fibre been used on those boxy car things.
It is a whole different world of 'body on frame' engineering. I sometimes wonder what a train would look like if it was designed from the ground up by a bicycle designer with a Lotus engineer - 'add lightness'.
Some modern 'Tesla truck' tech could be thrown in too.
Imagine having half the amount of wheels, all of them actively powered and actively steered so no screeching on corners. The seats could be 'bus stop grade' and the monocoque being some extruded tube with the hand rails and luggage racks being structural elements, like a rally car roll cage.
The idea of Brunel's wide gauge was to have the wheels at the side of the train rather than have the train sit above the tracks. Imagine if you had independent suspension and stepped a metre down into the train for some super low centre of gravity. Or if that extra space below the train was a massive parcel area so goods were shifted on/off trains with some standard pallets that just slotted in, aircraft style. Think how much traffic could be shifted off the roads particularly if you ran the trains in mixed freight mode through the night.
Rollercoaster style tracks, particularly in tube lines could be used to slow down trains at stations and speed them up afterwards.
As for the doors, these could be integrated into the compartment ends, so rather than there being the normal interconnect between compartments the doors would slide back/fore to keep the train enclosed on corners without the usual rubbery bendy bit needed.
Add airbags and seatbelts, windows that open, a bit of wifi and you could have comfort and actual passenger safety.