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How Children in a Maya Village Do Chores

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Re: How Children in a Maya Village Do Chores

#81

Post by edanm »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #58
jordigh wrote: post #27

I know this is a bit petty, but I've stared to resent a little that even though I'm Mexican, I'm not considered Western. What am I, then? Eastern? Central? Southern? I'm not just arguing about the geography, but about the culture. I feel much more like a Canadian or a USian (or a Guatemalan) than I feel like an African, Middle Easter, East Asian, or South Asian. I speak the same languages as Europe, have been mostly…

> Mayans and I are by now part of the greater western world "Western" is used as short-hand for the cultures "that have some origin or association with Europe. The term also applies beyond Europe to countries and cultures whose histories are strongly connected to Europe by immigration, colonization, or influence." Modern Mexican culture could be argued to be "Western". It would be difficult, on the other hand, to arg…

"There is no ambiguity when someone says "I am American," as people from only one country identify themselves as such."

That's... not really true? I mean, it's true in the sense that everyone "knows" that when you say American, you mean "someone from the US". But that doesn't mean it doesn't bother people from other countries in the Americas. And even if they speak e.g. Spanish, they will tend to also speak English, so it's not like they aren't exposed to this concept.

Re: How Children in a Maya Village Do Chores

#82

Post by selestify »

watwut wrote: post #51
DoreenMichele wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My mother is one of 12 kids. My father grew up on a farm, dirt poor. Your description to some degree fits my childhood. There were some really good things about growing up that way. But I was not thinking about romanticizing rural poverty. I was thinking about unfairly vilifying modern people whose choices grow out of wildly different circumstances, as if "your children should be doing more chores!" is yet one more m…

You dont need full time parent at home. That is really not the need. I also agree that "your child should do more chores" is just another guilt tripping of parents. If your child is lazy to wash dishes after dinner, absolutely needs to do more. But, as long as the child contributes without temper tamtrump to age-appropriate activities you all do and are needed (and still have time to learn and play), it is perfectly…

You do at least need constant adult supervision, yes?

Re: How Children in a Maya Village Do Chores

#83

Post by mmjaa »

I found it infuriating to read this article and realise there was no mention of Dad.

Maybe his absence is an overlooked part of it?

As a father, I do chores with my kids, and the trope that only mothers and house-wives do chores is really tiresome.

Maybe there's another way to get kids involved in chores - make sure Dad doesn't get away with not being involved, too.

The family that cleans together (that means Dads too), live happily together.

Re: How Children in a Maya Village Do Chores

#84

Post by edanm »

DoreenMichele wrote: post #35

"The Mexican-American kids, aged 6 to 7, were doing about twice as much around the house as the middle-class European-American kids, on average," It's implied but not outright stated in the above quote: We are talking about households that are much, much poorer on average than "middle-class European-American kids." This is backed up by the photos in the article. So, if you have nothing else to do because your parents…

I agree with the implication, but I think you're at least somewhat wrong, and I still thought it was a great article. Specifically, I think that I'm going to be taking this idea to heart with my own child.

The reason I think you're wrong, btw, is that even my son (2 yrs old), who is certainly not lacking in things to do, seems to be very interested in helping us around the kitchen. Every time I'm cooking, he comes to look at what I'm doing. I'd actually kind of discouraged this, at least somewhat, but I'm rethinking this now - maybe I'll try to find a way for him to actually help, next time.

Re: How Children in a Maya Village Do Chores

#85

Post by newfoundglory »

edanm wrote: post #81
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Mayans and I are by now part of the greater western world "Western" is used as short-hand for the cultures "that have some origin or association with Europe. The term also applies beyond Europe to countries and cultures whose histories are strongly connected to Europe by immigration, colonization, or influence." Modern Mexican culture could be argued to be "Western". It would be difficult, on the other hand, to arg…

"There is no ambiguity when someone says "I am American," as people from only one country identify themselves as such." That's... not really true? I mean, it's true in the sense that everyone "knows" that when you say American, you mean "someone from the US". But that doesn't mean it doesn't bother people from other countries in the Americas. And even if they speak e.g. Spanish, they will tend to also speak English,…

Of course it's true. You say yourself, everyone knows what it means. It's totally unrelated to say that not everyone likes the usage.

Re: How Children in a Maya Village Do Chores

#86

Post by okket »

sudhirj wrote: post #80
okket wrote: post #55

I find it a bit disturbing that there is always the general case 'children' in the headline and in the article, but no mention of boys, only girls doing the work and in the pictures.

There’s plenty of mentions of sons in the article, just no pictures.

Plenty? I read the article again and found only one.

Re: How Children in a Maya Village Do Chores

#87

Post by avip »

mmjaa wrote: post #83

I found it infuriating to read this article and realise there was no mention of Dad. Maybe his absence is an overlooked part of it? As a father, I do chores with my kids, and the trope that only mothers and house-wives do chores is really tiresome. Maybe there's another way to get kids involved in chores - make sure Dad doesn't get away with not being involved, too. The family that cleans together (that means Dads to…

The parenting industry generally ignores the implied existence of "dads", because they (we) are a failed useless target group that buys nothing.

Re: How Children in a Maya Village Do Chores

#88

Post by Moru »

"We have mothers tell us things like, 'I need to do a chore very quickly, and if my toddler tries to help, he makes a mess. So I'd rather do it myself than having them helping,' " she says.

I see some women do this but exchange the "toddler" with "husband". The husband will ofcourse see this and not try to help in the future because he feels insecure or just happy that she is happy doing it herself. It isn't too late to train new things just because you aren't a toddler any more. This focus on getting your toddler learning algebra or play the violin as early as possible isn't productive, let the kids be kids. This includes letting them help at home ofcourse.

Re: How Children in a Maya Village Do Chores

#89

Post by M_Bakhtiari »

PebblesRox wrote: post #17
3rdAccount wrote: post #16

There's a relevant Paul graham essay about how teenagers are basically neurotic lapdogs because throughout much of history they would assist with everything and would be an apprentice..etc, but now are locked away at school (similar to a prison or daycare where their parents drop them off so they can work). It's a great essay that I can't do justice if someone can find it.

I believe it’s this one: http://paulgraham.com/nerds.html Some relevant excerpts: “Bullying was only part of the problem. Another problem, and possibly an even worse one, was that we never had anything real to work on. Humans like to work; in most of the world, your work is your identity. And all the work we did was pointless, or seemed so at the time.” “If life seems awful to kids, it's neither because hormones are…

I think he's spot on here. The culture clash between a society where the young are to be incarcerated in some kind of padded safe space and a society where the young are junior members of adult society is all too apparent in Western Europe.

Youngsters from my neck of the woods are lining up to enter the wealthy European countries and the politicians and anatomists have been whipped up in a panicked frenzy trying to determine from X-rays who is over and who is under the arbitrary age of 18, while any culturally sensitive person will plainly who are grown men of military and marrying age where they come from and who aren't.

And what do the ones who qualify as "children" or successfully lie on their applications get? They may be grown men where they come from, but men who are too naive to realise what they are lining up for is to be castrated by the welfare state. They are asking to become incarcerated children, and when they realise where they have been lured, who can blame these strapping young fighters for embracing gang culture and shooting up their host neighbourhoods in endless retaliation between the various lord-pretenders of the flies?

Re: How Children in a Maya Village Do Chores

#90

Post by M_Bakhtiari »

joesb wrote: post #56
PebblesRox wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If anyone wants to see this in action, someone took a video of their two-year-old making coffee. It’s impressive! (And adorable) https://www.paulaspencerscott.com/single-post/toddler-making...

But, imagine, if the kids fucked up once and burns his face with that coffee, many of use would be blaming the parent for involving him in such a dangersous task for a two-year-old.

Spend enough time in rural developing parts of the world and you'll see an awful lot of kids with burnt faces and hands. Not burning their kids so much is something I do have to give western society credit for, as critical I otherwise am of it.
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