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Facebook now denying access unless EU users opt-in to tracking

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Re: Facebook now denying access unless EU users opt-in to tracking

#81

Post by ucaetano »

waisbrot wrote: post #48
ucaetano wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"We require tracking to pay for the costs of providing this free service". No such thing as a free lunch.

That would be interesting! That would probably mean they'd need to ban me, since I use an ad-blocker, right? What about someone who uploads a lot of pictures but doesn't have many friends? That person might be using more resources than the ad revenue they generated...

> That would probably mean they'd need to ban me, since I use an ad-blocker, right?

Are you saying they should be forced by law to block you?

> What about someone who uploads a lot of pictures but doesn't have many friends? That person might be using more resources than the ad revenue they generated...

That is a flat-fee/pricing issue, just like someone binge watching Netflix might be using more resources than they generate in revenue. It isn't relevant to the discussion.

Re: Facebook now denying access unless EU users opt-in to tracking

#82

Post by zero_intp »

mrweasel wrote: post #54
star-castle wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

what? seriously? Do EU citizens have some kind of legal right to Facebook access, now? It's illegal for Facebook to not serve people they can't sell to advertisers? I'd love it if Facebook were nationalized (or destroyed), but none of the coverage of the GDPR made it sound like it was going in that direction. I thought it was just another stupid "click here to acknowledge our cookies" rule that was going to spam up t…

I really do agree with you, a Facebook account isn't a right you have. You can just not use Facebook if you disagree with their terms of service. The only problem is: Facebooks terms of service isn't really reasonable, and most people won't understand the implications. As I understand the GDPR one of the goals is to give users a set of rights, in regards to their data. These right cannot, under any circumstances, be…

it is extremely possible to sign away one's free speech; this is the heart of a non-disclosure agreement.

Re: Facebook now denying access unless EU users opt-in to tracking

#83

Post by purple-again »

mrweasel wrote: post #69
znpy wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm gonna guess that no, you can't. That's what I would expect from Facebook.

Greate, so now my account will just exist in some state of limbo...

VPN in and delete your account? I've no personal experience to know if this is the wrong use case but I've seen it recommended enough on HN now to think its the right solution for this issue.

Re: Facebook now denying access unless EU users opt-in to tracking

#85

Post by blahfuk »

willsinclair wrote: post #5

Interesting. It seems like after the senate hearings, Facebook is trying to communicate to its users that sending them your data is a necessary part of using their services.

It's how they pay the bills, to be fair. I don't think that's much of a secret anymore but looks like they're making it more explicit.

Re: Facebook now denying access unless EU users opt-in to tracking

#86

Post by mrec »

simonbarker87 wrote: post #50
mrec wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Somewhat ironically, as a (UK) Leave voter I rather like it.

Voting to leave doesn’t automatically mean one has to dislike all laws from the EU. It’s ok to want to leave the EU whilst also liking some aspects of what it brings us. As a person who voted remain this has been one of the most frustrating things about the whole Brexit situation, it’s like it has to be a binary status: one either loves the EU and everything about it or you hate the EU and membership brings no benefi…

I couldn't agree more; I too get frustated by the degeneration of most public debate. Personally I was very much on the fence, leaning net Leave on the meta level (major constitutional change should not happen without a popular mandate) but net Remain on the object level (especially on things like digital rights, where the UK has a long and sordid history of tin-pot authoritarianism long predating T. May).

Re: Facebook now denying access unless EU users opt-in to tracking

#87

Post by purple-again »

ClassAndBurn wrote: post #42

GDPR doesn't cover enough of the population using Facebook to warrant such a change to their business model where you can use the service without them using your data. They believe they are entrenched enough to just require this (and likely are for many EU residents).

I'm really curious to find out if the GDPR privacy stance (I'm American, not well traveled, and with no non american social circle) is like the 'no JavaScript' community. Vastly over represented in the tech community and not really representative of the population as a whole.

In other words, are 99% of European citizens going to just click through what ever annoying prompts they have to in order to get to their facebook (thats what I would do) or is there an actual widespread cultural difference in the EU that would stop large segments from agreeing to this.

Re: Facebook now denying access unless EU users opt-in to tracking

#88

Post by petercooper »

zdragnar wrote: post #49
andai wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you mean to say that Facebook's existence isn't entirely dependent on selling personal information to advertisers?

I don't think the GDPR's "necessary to work" clause considers profit models. I believe, (again, IANAL) that "necessary to work" is really "necessary for a feature to function"; how a company derives revenue from the service doesn't come into account. It would be interesting to see revenue as a necessity be tested in court, since there are open-source social networks that don't rely on user tracking or data sales to t…

On the contrary, commercial interests, including things like direct marketing, are considered acceptable "legitimate interests" under the GDPR, assuming the practice follows industry standards, ethics, and are legal.

However, they need to pass two other tests, a "necessity" test that determines that the processing of information is necessary to serve the interest, and, most crucially, a "balancing" test which balances the commercial interest against the user's interests, rights, and freedoms. It's this latter part where more onerous advertising practices will falter.

https://ico.org.uk/for-organisations/guide-to-the-general-da...

Re: Facebook now denying access unless EU users opt-in to tracking

#89

Post by mrweasel »

tlrobinson wrote: post #73
mrweasel wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're not allow to operate that way in most other businesses anyway. You can't sell leaded paint, even if clearly marked. You can't sell unsafe cars, even if you tell people that even low speed impacts will kill them. There's a ton of stuff you can't do, even with clear consent, because otherwise people who lack the means to understand the compromises or afford the safer choices will suffer.

Those are safety/environmental issues. Showing you ads based on your preferences is not.

You could easily argue that tracking users behaviour is a safety issue. But fair enough, how about the loan business, you aren't allowed to charge overly high interest on loans. That's neither a safety or environmental issue.

Re: Facebook now denying access unless EU users opt-in to tracking

#90

Post by [deleted] »

mrweasel wrote: post #63
ovao wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's disconcerting to me that under the GDPR, online businesses appear to be losing the ability to deny services to a user who knowingly, and with clear consent, chooses to take personal responsibility over the data they provide to said businesses. Regardless of whether this is for the "greater good", this is deeply unsettling territory.

You're not allow to operate that way in most other businesses anyway. You can't sell leaded paint, even if clearly marked. You can't sell unsafe cars, even if you tell people that even low speed impacts will kill them. There's a ton of stuff you can't do, even with clear consent, because otherwise people who lack the means to understand the compromises or afford the safer choices will suffer.

[deleted]
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