Facebook now denying access unless EU users opt-in to tracking • Hacker News Board

Re: Facebook now denying access unless EU users opt-in to tracking

#31

Post by akie » Wed, May 09, 2018, 4:01 PM UTC

andai wrote: post #26

gonmf wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is no legal right to Facebook, but if Facebook wants to do business here, it has to abide by our rules. And our rules are very simple, you cannot deny service because the user doesn't allow tracking if tracking is not necessary for your service to work. And it isn't in this case, it's only necessary to deliver higher paying ads. Since they are being selective on the users they accept based on being tracked, the…

As an EU citizen I am offended by this regulation.

How? I mean, why are you offended by this attempt to curb the data that companies can collect on you without your consent?

Re: Facebook now denying access unless EU users opt-in to tracking

#32

Post by mrec » Wed, May 09, 2018, 4:01 PM UTC

ben509 wrote: post #9

Lionsion wrote: post #2

IIRC, the GDPR is very explicit about what constitutes valid consent, so things like pre-checked check-boxes aren't valid. Is "consent" gained by a screen with only an "I agree" button even kosher by it?

It may be that FB's lawyers come at it with a more American view whereby it's legal if it complies with the letter of the law. I suspect the Euro legal system tends to build a fence around the Torah, so to speak.

That sounds backwards to me. Mainland European legal systems are based on civil law, which heavily emphasizes letter rather than spirit. (As opposed to the common law traditions found in most of the Anglosphere.)

Re: Facebook now denying access unless EU users opt-in to tracking

#33

Post by Lionsion » Wed, May 09, 2018, 4:03 PM UTC

star-castle wrote: post #10

mtgx wrote: post #3

I'm pretty sure that's illegal under GDPR.

what? seriously? Do EU citizens have some kind of legal right to Facebook access, now? It's illegal for Facebook to not serve people they can't sell to advertisers? I'd love it if Facebook were nationalized (or destroyed), but none of the coverage of the GDPR made it sound like it was going in that direction. I thought it was just another stupid "click here to acknowledge our cookies" rule that was going to spam up t…

> what? seriously? Do EU citizens have some kind of legal right to Facebook access, now? It's illegal for Facebook to not serve people they can't sell to advertisers?

Facebook doesn't have a right to track people in the EU without gaining their consent to it in a way that complies with EU law.

EU citizens have a legal right to expect that Facebook will comply with European consumer protection laws.

If Facebook doesn't want to properly comply with EU regulations, they're free to totally withdraw from the EU market. Otherwise, it can expect penalties for its willful noncompliance.

Re: Facebook now denying access unless EU users opt-in to tracking

#34

Post by ucaetano » Wed, May 09, 2018, 4:03 PM UTC

Lionsion wrote: post #24

okmaybeyesno wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Facebook will argue that the data is necessary.

I can't see that argument going well: Since they let users opt-out of targeted advertising, which is probably the only thing "tracking" is useful for, they tacitly admit that "tracking" is not necessary for them to providing their service.

"We require tracking to pay for the costs of providing this free service".

No such thing as a free lunch.

Re: Facebook now denying access unless EU users opt-in to tracking

#35

Post by zerostar07 » Wed, May 09, 2018, 4:04 PM UTC

I doubt they released this without consulting the relevant data agencies in the EU. And TBH there is nothing shocking here, just a confirmation of what everybody knows is already happening.

I 'm also in the EU and this makes perfect sense to me: if you can't accept seeing some ads then you can't use the free service. I highly doubt people are willing to pay $5 cash / quarter to use it, but i would like to see FB giving that option, just to see how miserably it fails.

Re: Facebook now denying access unless EU users opt-in to tracking

#36

Post by mrec » Wed, May 09, 2018, 4:04 PM UTC

andai wrote: post #26

gonmf wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is no legal right to Facebook, but if Facebook wants to do business here, it has to abide by our rules. And our rules are very simple, you cannot deny service because the user doesn't allow tracking if tracking is not necessary for your service to work. And it isn't in this case, it's only necessary to deliver higher paying ads. Since they are being selective on the users they accept based on being tracked, the…

As an EU citizen I am offended by this regulation.

Somewhat ironically, as a (UK) Leave voter I rather like it.

Re: Facebook now denying access unless EU users opt-in to tracking

#37

Post by stedaniels » Wed, May 09, 2018, 4:04 PM UTC

ars wrote: post #25

gonmf wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is no legal right to Facebook, but if Facebook wants to do business here, it has to abide by our rules. And our rules are very simple, you cannot deny service because the user doesn't allow tracking if tracking is not necessary for your service to work. And it isn't in this case, it's only necessary to deliver higher paying ads. Since they are being selective on the users they accept based on being tracked, the…

And if higher paying ads are necessary for the service to work? Or do you foresee this being like drug prices, where the US subsidizes drug development for the world?

I'd be more understanding of your comment if Facebook was only just making a profit. However we both know it's raking in the cash.

Re: Facebook now denying access unless EU users opt-in to tracking

#38

Post by zerostar07 » Wed, May 09, 2018, 4:05 PM UTC

mtgx wrote: post #3

I'm pretty sure that's illegal under GDPR.

What do you consider legal under GDPR? A lot of people think it's some kind of "revenge gun", but for what exactly? I wonder what people expected that would happen.

Re: Facebook now denying access unless EU users opt-in to tracking

#39

Post by Havoc » Wed, May 09, 2018, 4:06 PM UTC

Do you consent to this cavity search? (Required to board plane)

Re: Facebook now denying access unless EU users opt-in to tracking

#40

Post by waisbrot » Wed, May 09, 2018, 4:07 PM UTC

ovao wrote: post #29

gonmf wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is no legal right to Facebook, but if Facebook wants to do business here, it has to abide by our rules. And our rules are very simple, you cannot deny service because the user doesn't allow tracking if tracking is not necessary for your service to work. And it isn't in this case, it's only necessary to deliver higher paying ads. Since they are being selective on the users they accept based on being tracked, the…

It's disconcerting to me that under the GDPR, online businesses appear to be losing the ability to deny services to a user who knowingly, and with clear consent, chooses to take personal responsibility over the data they provide to said businesses. Regardless of whether this is for the "greater good", this is deeply unsettling territory.

How did you determine "knowingly, and with clear consent"?

I guess I'd agree that if someone wrote a 5 page paper describing all the ways that Facebook harvests their data and what might be done with it afterwards then they should be allowed to do what they want? But I suspect most people would be like "uhhh, I think they, um, know what pages I liked? And maybe they use that for ads?"