Think You’ve Got Your Credit Freezes Covered? Think Again • Hacker News Board

Re: Think You’ve Got Your Credit Freezes Covered? Think Again

#81

Post by IncRnd » Thu, May 10, 2018, 1:01 AM UTC

gascan wrote: post #79

IncRnd wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, you are missing the other attack. Someone can take advantage of already existing lines of credit, credits cards, etc. which they presumably will not be able to do if you pay for everything in cash.

Obviously, but I guess I don't see how that relates to the article at all.

Yes, it is obvious, which is why it was strange that you asked if you missed anything. The answer was yes, you missed what you now agree is obvious.

It relates to the article in the following obvious way. A freeze on running a credit report means that someone cannot run your credit report. Without the ability to run your credit report, someone cannot discover your existing accounts, limits, addresses, and balances by running your credit report.

You also wrote: Equifax et al don't particularly care if you pay cash, they have some form of record on you either way.

This is not correct. Equifax and the other bureaus do not have a record of you on a credit report if you always pay cash and never apply for or run a credit report.

Re: Think You’ve Got Your Credit Freezes Covered? Think Again

#82

Post by InclinedPlane » Thu, May 10, 2018, 6:39 AM UTC

Dirlewanger wrote: post #73

InclinedPlane wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What is your reasoning behind that? This is seriously one of the dumbest "kids these days" statements I've ever read. Kids will become technologically sophisticated, many kids already are. Many kids will attain higher technical proficiency than you ever had, for example. Why would it be otherwise?

Just because your average, clueless, overweight boomer thinks using the latest social media applications on the newest phones makes someone technically savvy, that doesn't mean they actually are . Also, I'd bet the average teenager would still be as clueless about setting up a home theater (i.e. plugging in the correct cables into the correct sockets) as one was 20 years ago.

I have no idea what point you are trying to make.

Re: Think You’ve Got Your Credit Freezes Covered? Think Again

#83

Post by gaius » Thu, May 10, 2018, 7:44 AM UTC

JoeAltmaier wrote: post #62

InclinedPlane wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What is your reasoning behind that? This is seriously one of the dumbest "kids these days" statements I've ever read. Kids will become technologically sophisticated, many kids already are. Many kids will attain higher technical proficiency than you ever had, for example. Why would it be otherwise?

There are 100 reasons - the innards of technology boxes are less accessible. Programming languages are more abstract, and few dig down to the lower layers (which used to be all there was). Its changing faster and hard to get a mindshare before it all changes again. I don't think its a 'kids these days' statement at all. More a 'technology these days'

Right. Take 2 10-year-olds. Give one a C=64 and a paper manual, and one an iPad and an internet connection. Which one is more likely to learn to program?

Re: Think You’ve Got Your Credit Freezes Covered? Think Again

#84

Post by gaius » Thu, May 10, 2018, 8:48 AM UTC

pmiller2 wrote: post #44

teddyh wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Stallman was right: I never pay for anything on the Web. Anything on the net that requires payment, I don't do. (I made an exception for the fees for the stallman.org domain, since that is connected with me anyway.) I also avoid paying with credit cards . For freedom's sake, insist on paying cash. When a business pressures you to pay in an identified way, that means your help as a citizen is needed: say, "If you won'…

Good luck buying a house or a car with cash. I know he's specifically referring to things on the internet, but, I'm sure, Stallman being Stallman, he would say you should follow this rule offline as well.

Good luck buying a house or a car with cash.

Not an issue for Stallman with his grant from the MacArthur foundation. But much of his advice comes from generalisation of his near-unique circumstances.

Re: Think You’ve Got Your Credit Freezes Covered? Think Again

#85

Post by ashleyn » Thu, May 10, 2018, 12:03 PM UTC

Dirlewanger wrote: post #15

It's all so tiring. It's seriously going to be decades until we get politicians in power that understand the Internet and start holding companies accountable that don't give a shit about security (namely, all of them).

That's cute, expecting the federal government to even barely function in this dysfunctional era.

We don't get action on these things because Congress is fundamentally broken.

Re: Think You’ve Got Your Credit Freezes Covered? Think Again

#86

Post by teddyh » Thu, May 10, 2018, 12:59 PM UTC

pmiller2 wrote: post #44

teddyh wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Stallman was right: I never pay for anything on the Web. Anything on the net that requires payment, I don't do. (I made an exception for the fees for the stallman.org domain, since that is connected with me anyway.) I also avoid paying with credit cards . For freedom's sake, insist on paying cash. When a business pressures you to pay in an identified way, that means your help as a citizen is needed: say, "If you won'…

Good luck buying a house or a car with cash. I know he's specifically referring to things on the internet, but, I'm sure, Stallman being Stallman, he would say you should follow this rule offline as well.

Both a car and a house has a registered owner, so Stallman would most likely have no issue paying for both without insisting on cash.

The issue, as he explains, is one of tying the purchase to your identity. If it can be avoided, you should use cash. If you have to otherwise identify yourself for other reasons (like when buying an airline ticket, or when buying something which inherently identifies you, like paying for the stallman.org domain), there is no question of avoiding identification, and insisting on cash would be pointless.

Re: Think You’ve Got Your Credit Freezes Covered? Think Again

#87

Post by drablyechoes » Thu, May 10, 2018, 5:09 PM UTC

jstarfish wrote: post #49

drablyechoes wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The SSN of someone "off the grid" would actually be perfect for doing what is called synthetic identity fraud. If a given SSN has no credit history, you can make up a fictitious person and apply for a credit card with it. The application is probably declined, but a record of this SSN associated to a completely fictitious identity now exists in the credit reporting agencies databases, which makes it more likely that a…

Stealing someone else's unused SSN is not synthetic identity creation, it's just fraud. There is a living person associated with that SSN, even if they are off the grid. Synthetic identity fraud involves you making a bunch of inquiries with completely fake SSNs and squatting on them for a few years, maybe bringing them out of cold storage every so often to make a few more inquiries to keep them on the credit-building…

There is more than one way to construct a synthetic identity, but in most cases that I've been aware of, a stolen SSN is used to construct the totally fake identity.

Using a completely fake SSN instead of a stolen SSN is what distinguishes "synthetic identity theft" from "synthetic identity fraud".

The identities in both cases are completely fake, but only in the identity theft case is the synthetic identity backstopped by a legitimate SSN that belongs to a real person somewhere. If that real person is a child or "off the grid", then the CRAs have no idea who the real person is and their SSN is ripe for creating a synthetic identity that will probably go undetected for years.

Re: Think You’ve Got Your Credit Freezes Covered? Think Again

#88

Post by 2RTZZSro » Thu, May 10, 2018, 5:28 PM UTC

astrange wrote: post #56

mieseratte wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, you can't go fully off-the-grid but it makes things a little easier if you're monitoring: * Lack of history makes successful applications less likely * Lack of history makes fraud stand out, any activity is fraud * Since fraud has been identity theft, meaning I have to bitch-and-moan, lack of utilization of credit lends to a stronger story which can help convince folks whereas a serial debtor makes for a less s…

Why do you care if someone steals your CC? You don’t have to pay for any of it.

> You don’t have to pay for any of it.

In Europe you have a 24hr window to catch the fraud. Afterwards you assume all liability.