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Think You’ve Got Your Credit Freezes Covered? Think Again

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Re: Think You’ve Got Your Credit Freezes Covered? Think Again

#71

Post by rcthompson »

InclinedPlane wrote: post #61
rcthompson wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Will it ever happen? When the current generation of children reaches office-holding age, a majority of them may understand internet culture , but I don't think a significant fraction will ever understand the internet in a technical sense.

What is your reasoning behind that? This is seriously one of the dumbest "kids these days" statements I've ever read. Kids will become technologically sophisticated, many kids already are. Many kids will attain higher technical proficiency than you ever had, for example. Why would it be otherwise?

I think you're misunderstanding what I'm trying to say. It's not statement about "kids these days", it's a statement about all people always. The fraction of the population that actually understands the inner workings of the technology we all use every day is vanishingly small, and what I'm saying is that I don't see that changing, despite the fact that "kids these days" are growing up with computers and smart phones unlike previous generations. Hence, I think the idea that we just have to hold out for the next generation who will come in with their deep understanding of computers and digital security and fix all the laws to reflect the realities of modern computing is sadly flawed.

Re: Think You’ve Got Your Credit Freezes Covered? Think Again

#72

Post by DoubleCribble »

tomohawk wrote: post #64
DoubleCribble wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you have the cash and can invest it better (net taxes and fees) than what the cost of the loan is, why not? If you are fortunate enough to qualify for a very low interest loan (usually on a new car), even a very reasonable growth rate on your investments can be sufficient to effectively pay for a couple car payments on the loan each year.

Lets say you own a car 100%. Would you say it is wise to take out a loan on that car to play the stock market? That's the same thing as what your are saying. What if the market goes south? What if your lose your job? Debt represents risk that makes all of these other setbacks worse. It's better to get that off your back, then invest. If you have car debt, you should first pay that off, then play the stock market with…

Honestly, that depends on the interest rate spread. If I could get the same terms as a new car (let's say 1.9% on 60 months) during a boom economy/post-crash correction, I just might. Of course, you're never going to see that rate offered on a re-fi for a used car so this is purely hypothetical but as the saying goes, fortune favors the bold.

Re: Think You’ve Got Your Credit Freezes Covered? Think Again

#73

Post by Dirlewanger »

InclinedPlane wrote: post #61
rcthompson wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Will it ever happen? When the current generation of children reaches office-holding age, a majority of them may understand internet culture , but I don't think a significant fraction will ever understand the internet in a technical sense.

What is your reasoning behind that? This is seriously one of the dumbest "kids these days" statements I've ever read. Kids will become technologically sophisticated, many kids already are. Many kids will attain higher technical proficiency than you ever had, for example. Why would it be otherwise?

Just because your average, clueless, overweight boomer thinks using the latest social media applications on the newest phones makes someone technically savvy, that doesn't mean they actually are. Also, I'd bet the average teenager would still be as clueless about setting up a home theater (i.e. plugging in the correct cables into the correct sockets) as one was 20 years ago.

Re: Think You’ve Got Your Credit Freezes Covered? Think Again

#74

Post by watersb »

tomohawk wrote: post #55
pmiller2 wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Good luck buying a house or a car with cash. I know he's specifically referring to things on the internet, but, I'm sure, Stallman being Stallman, he would say you should follow this rule offline as well.

Why would you borrow money to get a car? It's a depreciating asset. If you have to borrow money to get a car, you're buying too much car. A house, you probably will need leverage for, but at least there's a reasonable chance it will appreciate in value.

Most people I know need a car to get to their job. I stopped using a car to do so 20 years ago, but I had to leave Silicon Valley to do so.

My friends who stayed -- car payment and all -- now have far more money than I do. But I was much happier than I would have been, stuck in traffic. It's not for everyone.

Re: Think You’ve Got Your Credit Freezes Covered? Think Again

#75

Post by pmiller2 »

tomohawk wrote: post #55
pmiller2 wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Good luck buying a house or a car with cash. I know he's specifically referring to things on the internet, but, I'm sure, Stallman being Stallman, he would say you should follow this rule offline as well.

Why would you borrow money to get a car? It's a depreciating asset. If you have to borrow money to get a car, you're buying too much car. A house, you probably will need leverage for, but at least there's a reasonable chance it will appreciate in value.

Taking out a loan to buy a car can be worth it, if you get an extremely low interest rate. However, for that to happen, you need to be buying a new car with a top credit score. In that case, you're probably still better off paying cash, but taking a loan can smooth out cash flow a bit. But, if that's the reason you're taking the loan, you should already be able to buy the car in cash.

That's in a perfect world. In the real world, where people aren't perfectly rational agents, people take out car loans all the time. One can argue that the major US automakers are essentially finance companies these days.

Re: Think You’ve Got Your Credit Freezes Covered? Think Again

#76

Post by everdrive »

dragonwriter wrote: post #21
convolvatron wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

if you use cash exclusively, then you have no credit to exploit. equifax knows about me, but no one will give me a loan.

> if you use cash exclusively, then you have no credit to exploit If you have income and have and pay any recurring bills (even utilities, etc.) you have credit to exploit; it may be a fairly weak credit history, but if you have no substantive debt, you probably also then have a good listed debt-to-income and debt-to-asset ratio, which can (potentially more than) offset that sparse history when opening a new line of…

>If you have income and have and pay any recurring bills (even utilities, etc.) you have credit to exploit;

I was always told this was true, but I waited for years to finally get a credit card or try to apply for a loan. Everyone informed me I had ZERO credit history, despite paying apartment and utility bills for years. I don't have any explanation for why this is true, except that I started my credit from scratch in my late-20s.

Re: Think You’ve Got Your Credit Freezes Covered? Think Again

#77

Post by IncRnd »

gascan wrote: post #11
reaperducer wrote: post #5

Bottom line: Whenever possible, wherever possible, pay cash. I used to laugh at my father-in-law whom I once considered to be a conspiracy theory whackjob with his off-the-grid lifestyle. As more and more of his "crazy" insights turn into New York Times headlines, I'm starting to think he was ahead of the curve.

Am I missing something here? Paying cash doesn't prevent the opening of fraudulent lines of credit in your name. Equifax et al don't particularly care if you pay cash, they have some form of record on you either way.

Yes, you are missing the other attack. Someone can take advantage of already existing lines of credit, credits cards, etc. which they presumably will not be able to do if you pay for everything in cash.

Re: Think You’ve Got Your Credit Freezes Covered? Think Again

#78

Post by IncRnd »

dragonwriter wrote: post #21
convolvatron wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

if you use cash exclusively, then you have no credit to exploit. equifax knows about me, but no one will give me a loan.

> if you use cash exclusively, then you have no credit to exploit If you have income and have and pay any recurring bills (even utilities, etc.) you have credit to exploit; it may be a fairly weak credit history, but if you have no substantive debt, you probably also then have a good listed debt-to-income and debt-to-asset ratio, which can (potentially more than) offset that sparse history when opening a new line of…

> If you have income and have and pay any recurring bills (even utilities, etc.) you have credit to exploit;

None of the three major bureaus track any of this information, so in practical terms they do not factor into a credit history. Income is not collected by itself and placed on a credit report. It's not a weak credit history but non-existent.

Re: Think You’ve Got Your Credit Freezes Covered? Think Again

#79

Post by gascan »

IncRnd wrote: post #77
gascan wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Am I missing something here? Paying cash doesn't prevent the opening of fraudulent lines of credit in your name. Equifax et al don't particularly care if you pay cash, they have some form of record on you either way.

Yes, you are missing the other attack. Someone can take advantage of already existing lines of credit, credits cards, etc. which they presumably will not be able to do if you pay for everything in cash.

Obviously, but I guess I don't see how that relates to the article at all.

Re: Think You’ve Got Your Credit Freezes Covered? Think Again

#80

Post by rhufdu »

soared wrote: post #69
mieseratte wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, you can't go fully off-the-grid but it makes things a little easier if you're monitoring: * Lack of history makes successful applications less likely * Lack of history makes fraud stand out, any activity is fraud * Since fraud has been identity theft, meaning I have to bitch-and-moan, lack of utilization of credit lends to a stronger story which can help convince folks whereas a serial debtor makes for a less s…

Lack of history kills your credit score and will cost you potentially hundreds of thousands of dollars over your lifetime if you buy a house/car/education/etc

Not if you use cash
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