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'Google go home': the Berlin neighbourhood fighting off a tech giant

theguardian.com

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Re: 'Google go home': the Berlin neighbourhood fighting off a tech giant

#81

Post by yc-kraln »

valarauca1 wrote: post #28
drinchev wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Berlin will be Europe's Silicon Valley within a few years. Things that need to happen before this : 1. Salaries need to grow faster. Rent is really high for the new comers specialists. 2. Companies need to increase the salary gap between good and bad workers. Right now you are not able to negotiate more than 10% on top of the "average" salary. 3. Germany needs to fix the privileges of employees having options / sha…

> Salaries need to grow faster Berlin software engineer salaries are seriously worse then any where in america. I’ve seen desktop IT support in the US MidWest pay more than developers in Berlin. Hard to convince me to move internationally and write code. I can just move home, write zero code, and spend all day telling people to try, “turning it off and on again”. Cashing identical value checks.

Sure, but when you lose your job in the US Midwest you are without healthcare and you will probably lose your house, etc. It's impossible to compare jobs based only on salary, you have to calculate with the total cost of living and balance against services provided and peace of mind.

One of the reasons there are so many startups in Berlin is because if you fail, you are taken care of--you won't lose your house, or your health insurance, or have to leave. Another reason is that it's very straightforward to get work permits for engineers. Try hiring someone from Estonia in the US Midwest...

Re: 'Google go home': the Berlin neighbourhood fighting off a tech giant

#82

Post by rurban »

saintPirelli wrote: post #72
mhomde wrote: post #9

I think Berlins "Poor but happy" times are fast coming to an end. Rents have been rising quickly the last few years and tech companies and startups becoming more prevalent. Heck, Neukölln went from being a cheap alternative to being as trendy and expensive as Kreuzberg. Berlin kinda, from what I understand, enjoyed it's special culture much because it wasn't an industrial city and lacked an large international airpor…

No way. Europe's Silicon Valley will establish in Eastern Europe, where living is cheaper and governments are more willing to ease up on regulations to accomodate the flexible start-up employer-employee relationships. Warsaw, Sophia, Tallinn, those are the spots to keep an eye out for.

They especially have much better talent, compared to the Berlin ruby/php/javascript hipsters.

Re: 'Google go home': the Berlin neighbourhood fighting off a tech giant

#83

Post by collyw »

ido wrote: post #76
uhnuhnuhn wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Berlin housing crisis is very much happening almost everywhere. City-wide average rents increased 45% between 2009-2015. Rents doubled in some districts in that timeframe and even in the least affected areas (Marzahn and Spandau) rents increased by more than 30%.

45% in 6 years is 6.21% compound per year, which is not unusually high for that time scale for an attractive large city.

Are the wages rising as fast? I would doubt it.

Re: 'Google go home': the Berlin neighbourhood fighting off a tech giant

#84

Post by rurban »

mhomde wrote: post #16
oblio wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sorry for the hipsters, but Berlin is the capital of the biggest economy in Europe and it was once one of the biggest metropolises in the world plus one of the biggest hubs of economy and science. It was always destined to go towards its past glory once Germany reunited. The only question was: "how long will it take for that to happen?".

Maybe Leipzig is the new Berlin :)

If so then Dresden. Dresden has all the brains and the industry. Plus it's the most beautiful town in Germany.

Re: 'Google go home': the Berlin neighbourhood fighting off a tech giant

#85

Post by itsmenotyou »

oblio wrote: post #14
mhomde wrote: post #9

I think Berlins "Poor but happy" times are fast coming to an end. Rents have been rising quickly the last few years and tech companies and startups becoming more prevalent. Heck, Neukölln went from being a cheap alternative to being as trendy and expensive as Kreuzberg. Berlin kinda, from what I understand, enjoyed it's special culture much because it wasn't an industrial city and lacked an large international airpor…

Sorry for the hipsters, but Berlin is the capital of the biggest economy in Europe and it was once one of the biggest metropolises in the world plus one of the biggest hubs of economy and science. It was always destined to go towards its past glory once Germany reunited. The only question was: "how long will it take for that to happen?".

Two points of contention:

1. It's not just hipsters this is affecting

2. This is not necessarily a move towards "glory". Most Berliners value the arts and cultural scene that exists in part due to low rents/cost of living and readily available performance/exhibition spaces. To see Berlin turned into another Silicon Valley would for most of us here be a major downgrade

Re: 'Google go home': the Berlin neighbourhood fighting off a tech giant

#86

Post by rurban »

brombeer wrote: post #37
mhomde wrote: post #9

I think Berlins "Poor but happy" times are fast coming to an end. Rents have been rising quickly the last few years and tech companies and startups becoming more prevalent. Heck, Neukölln went from being a cheap alternative to being as trendy and expensive as Kreuzberg. Berlin kinda, from what I understand, enjoyed it's special culture much because it wasn't an industrial city and lacked an large international airpor…

I think it's more likely to be Amsterdam, Zurich or Stockholm. Large corporations don't want their headquarters in Berlin for tax reasons: There's a reason they're all moving to Switzerland. The tech scene in Europe is very scattered.

So why is the car industry and the chip industry in Dresden then? It's about the talent.

Re: 'Google go home': the Berlin neighbourhood fighting off a tech giant

#87

Post by bitL »

saintPirelli wrote: post #72
mhomde wrote: post #9

I think Berlins "Poor but happy" times are fast coming to an end. Rents have been rising quickly the last few years and tech companies and startups becoming more prevalent. Heck, Neukölln went from being a cheap alternative to being as trendy and expensive as Kreuzberg. Berlin kinda, from what I understand, enjoyed it's special culture much because it wasn't an industrial city and lacked an large international airpor…

No way. Europe's Silicon Valley will establish in Eastern Europe, where living is cheaper and governments are more willing to ease up on regulations to accomodate the flexible start-up employer-employee relationships. Warsaw, Sophia, Tallinn, those are the spots to keep an eye out for.

The closest to Silicon Valley is London, however salaries there are pitiful. By the time Europe has any attempt to actually create an extremely well-paid bleeding-edge tech hub, that tech will be already in consolidation phase... Dream on.

Re: 'Google go home': the Berlin neighbourhood fighting off a tech giant

#88

Post by laingc »

hknd wrote: post #51
LifeLiverTransp wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Mark my words, Berlin will be Europe's Silicon Valley within a few years. It might happen- but it still wont have an airport.

Munich is still the city with the most IT jobs and companies - I don't know if Berlin will catch up. Berlin has this start-up flare image, but based on numbers that's just not true.

Yep, and compared to Munich, the startups I've seen in Berlin are extremely unimpressive.

Re: 'Google go home': the Berlin neighbourhood fighting off a tech giant

#89

Post by saintPirelli »

mstade wrote: post #75
saintPirelli wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No way. Europe's Silicon Valley will establish in Eastern Europe, where living is cheaper and governments are more willing to ease up on regulations to accomodate the flexible start-up employer-employee relationships. Warsaw, Sophia, Tallinn, those are the spots to keep an eye out for.

Speaking of Estonia, I was at their embassy in Stockholm last fall and they were pushing hard for Tallinn as the next European capital of tech. Nearly every conversation you had with them, regardless of topic, would somehow gravitate toward how great Estonia is to set up a tech shop. Whether because of cheap real estate or the quality of their work force, or the prevalence of craft beer – it was all just a great plac…

I have vague plans to visit too. And keep in mind Estonia already has produced a success story in tech: Skype.

Re: 'Google go home': the Berlin neighbourhood fighting off a tech giant

#90

Post by kayoone »

uhnuhnuhn wrote: post #48
aestetix wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think this is overblown. The Berlin "housing crisis" is only happening in a few trendy neighborhoods-- Neuköln, Kreuzberg, F-schein, etc. There is a rather ill-informed effort to attempt to compare it to, for example, what is happening in the Bay Area, which is absurd. In the Bay Area, any place to live within walking distance of public transit is so expensive that only tech workers can afford it, extending far bey…

The Berlin housing crisis is very much happening almost everywhere. City-wide average rents increased 45% between 2009-2015. Rents doubled in some districts in that timeframe and even in the least affected areas (Marzahn and Spandau) rents increased by more than 30%.

but rent was also dirt cheap in 2000-2010, so its more moving towards the average in other big german cities now.
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