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China’s web censors go into overdrive as President Xi Jinping consolidates power

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Re: China’s web censors go into overdrive as President Xi Jinping consolidates power

#81

Post by tonylinn80 »

sidcool wrote: post #59
tonylinn80 wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

democracy, to begin with... at least American style of democracy

Elaborate.

It'll take too much time to talk in details. Democracy in general in better than totalitarian in general, i don't disagree with that. However, establishing American democracy in China at this moment, most likely won't bring anything good or solve any problems China is facing now. And it's dangerous: If a presidential candidate say "Elect me and we'll take Taiwan back by force", the most likely outcome is that he'll get a shit ton of votes for that stance.

Re: China’s web censors go into overdrive as President Xi Jinping consolidates power

#82

Post by erikj »

jakecrouch wrote: post #62

This is why the US should not worry about China as a long-term economic threat - authoritarianism has never worked. The Soviet Union, 1930s Germany and Italy, all collapsed. I think the Chinese realize this and are pessemistic about their own future. The Constitution was designed to make the US Government as weak as possible, because a strong government ultimately turns on its people.

I think you're underestimating the strength of the US government. A lot of things happened since the 18th century.

Re: China’s web censors go into overdrive as President Xi Jinping consolidates power

#83

Post by narrator »

ilamont wrote: post #18

I have one Chinese friend who employs a double entendre, calling him "Xitler" In all seriousness, this is a black period for Chinese people and China's neighbors. The fledgling democracy in Hong Kong, and democratic nations around China's periphery including Taiwan, Japan, Nepal, and India should be very wary dealing with a strongman who will stop at nothing to further his power and nationalism-focused legacy.

Even if someone is a lover of the communist party, isn't it somewhat of a bad idea to have a cult of personality style leader? Wasn't that what the party wanted to put an end to after Mao?

Re: China’s web censors go into overdrive as President Xi Jinping consolidates power

#84

Post by gigatexal »

analyst74 wrote: post #65
gigatexal wrote: post #17

I hope that in my lifetime we see a revolution in China that overthrows the current authoritarian state and things like the great firewall and quasi-private/state run agencies go the way of the dodo bird. Unfortunately I don't see big American companies doing anything but continuing to court China and their growing class of wealthy consumers.

yeah, let's have an revolution, or better, let's have another world war over ideology, since it went so well last time. as much as it pains me to see China regressing on the freedom front, I hope we will sort things out in a less violent manner.

i pictured said revolution being internal -- but it'd be squashed before it began so it's only wishful thinking.

Re: China’s web censors go into overdrive as President Xi Jinping consolidates power

#85

Post by seanmcdirmid »

Analemma_ wrote: post #21
tonylinn80 wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not surprising at all. In fact, many of the Chinese expats (visitors of mitbbs.com) are pro-china in general. They become less agreeing to western values after spending years in US. (I am one of those examples myself)

> green account created 2 days ago to post on news about Xi abolishing term limits I'm curious, do you literally get 50 cents for each of these posts, or are you salaried?

Wu mao is more like 7 cents.

Re: China’s web censors go into overdrive as President Xi Jinping consolidates power

#86

Post by balthasar »

jakecrouch wrote: post #62

This is why the US should not worry about China as a long-term economic threat - authoritarianism has never worked. The Soviet Union, 1930s Germany and Italy, all collapsed. I think the Chinese realize this and are pessemistic about their own future. The Constitution was designed to make the US Government as weak as possible, because a strong government ultimately turns on its people.

I wouldn't be so quick to write them off. A large percentage of the world respects the Chinese government which usually acts in their own economic interest is stable over the long term. Whereas in the US the government does nothing but enact poor economic and social policies as well as saber rattling or war every time a right wing president is elected.

Re: China’s web censors go into overdrive as President Xi Jinping consolidates power

#87

Post by blackrock »

gigatexal wrote: post #17

I hope that in my lifetime we see a revolution in China that overthrows the current authoritarian state and things like the great firewall and quasi-private/state run agencies go the way of the dodo bird. Unfortunately I don't see big American companies doing anything but continuing to court China and their growing class of wealthy consumers.

Are you saying that you want to see 100 million dead Chinese people? Because that is what you are implying.

You will not have a revolution without spilling blood.

Re: China’s web censors go into overdrive as President Xi Jinping consolidates power

#88

Post by seanmcdirmid »

balthasar wrote: post #86
jakecrouch wrote: post #62

This is why the US should not worry about China as a long-term economic threat - authoritarianism has never worked. The Soviet Union, 1930s Germany and Italy, all collapsed. I think the Chinese realize this and are pessemistic about their own future. The Constitution was designed to make the US Government as weak as possible, because a strong government ultimately turns on its people.

I wouldn't be so quick to write them off. A large percentage of the world respects the Chinese government which usually acts in their own economic interest is stable over the long term. Whereas in the US the government does nothing but enact poor economic and social policies as well as saber rattling or war every time a right wing president is elected.

Well, unless you are Vietnam, the rest of SE Asia, Japan, or Taiwan. China can and does rattle sabers also.

Re: China’s web censors go into overdrive as President Xi Jinping consolidates power

#89

Post by leggomylibro »

woolvalley wrote: post #33
antichronology wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wonder if it will have some sort of long term impact on the economy. Is there a way of measuring relative government authoritarianism on economic development of a nation?

China was already an authoritarian nation, how much of an effective difference would this make?

What happened when Mao unilaterally declared that ploughshares should be melted down for the good of the economy?

I'm not a huge fan of authoritarian systems, but individual people are even more fallible. Laying decision-making power on one individual is a recipe for failure; they're going to be wrong eventually, and chances are people will be reluctant to speak out against their god-emperor when that happens in a system where power is so ridiculously centralized.

Re: China’s web censors go into overdrive as President Xi Jinping consolidates power

#90

Post by narrator »

kevin_thibedeau wrote: post #73
ilamont wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When strongman-based cults of personality (real or wannabe) appoint themselves ruler for life, policy can go off the rails. Wars, purges, persecution of minority groups, and civil unrest are more likely. Corrupt systems of checks and balances, which may have already been weak, slide ever further. Mao, Stalin, Chavez, Castro, Hitler, Mussolini, Chiang Kai-Shek ... a few of these strongmen presided over brief periods o…

And then there's Singapore. Ruled by an authoritarian, gum hating despot who provides nice civic infrastructure for the populace.

With a dictatorship it really depends on the competence of the leadership. This is not a robust strategy for organizing human civilizations.
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