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Thousands of Turks accused of using Bylock app despite never having used it

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Re: Thousands of Turks accused of using Bylock app despite never having used it

#81

This seems to be a growing trend, mostly in journalism; Blame technology. Just recently there was a article going around about how Google's search algorithm was at fault of keeping two sisters apart. And entire multi page write up on how our lives are at the whims of computers and algorithms. Then to be told that the one sister could not find the other because she changes her name online to protect her identity. Now…

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Re: Thousands of Turks accused of using Bylock app despite never having used it

#82
post #11

I find it very frustrating to read about such oppressive regimes. It fills me with anger, I cannot help myself, I just hate injustice.

You’re probably writing this from a country that drops bombs on people without first knowing who they are or why they are there, just that they appear to be male and over a certain height in an area of terrorist activity. No courts. No oversight. No accountability. What Turkey is doing is terrible but mild in comparison to the drone war.

> What Turkey is doing is terrible but mild in comparison to the drone war.

Turkey does that too, though. It has been using combat drones inside its own borders, Iraq and Syria, and the Turkish Air Force has previous for bombing civilians.

Re: Thousands of Turks accused of using Bylock app despite never having used it

#83

Can someone familiar with the situation explain how the employers know they used Bylock before the police raid?

"According to the daily, MİT has completed most of its works regarding ByLock and determined all the users in the server."

"The Department of Anti-Smuggling and Organized Crime transferred the list to its own database, with police in provinces able to check the list with a password given to them. Only one or two officials in the provinces are able to check the names in the list by entering the suspected person’s Turkish identity number or phone number.

In the checks done in the provinces, authorities are initially attempting to find who used the phones with ByLock. If the person who bought the phone line and the one who used it is different, then legal proceedings are conducted against the latter."

http://www.hurriyetdailynews.com/turkeys-intel-agency-sends-...

"Beşikçi said it was due to a single line of code, which created a window "one pixel high, one pixel wide" — essentially invisible to the human eye — to Bylock.net. Hypothetically, people could be accused of accessing the site without having knowingly viewed it."

Sounds like the app touched base with a unique server. Then it's a simple lookup of users at the ISP level.

Then inform government agencies / employers if their employees are on the list.

To me both articles imply the trace evidence on the phone is that it accessed something at some point in time rather than forensics on the phone.

[edit] I can't find any trace of the "bylock.net" in the Bylock apk source code. Someone else might want to look but something is missing. It'd be nice to know the exact line, if it's obscured that'd make it interesting.

Re: Thousands of Turks accused of using Bylock app despite never having used it

#84

This seems to be a growing trend, mostly in journalism; Blame technology. Just recently there was a article going around about how Google's search algorithm was at fault of keeping two sisters apart. And entire multi page write up on how our lives are at the whims of computers and algorithms. Then to be told that the one sister could not find the other because she changes her name online to protect her identity. Now…

Agreed. But not surprised. Journalists have been doing this for decades with other things like guns.

Re: Thousands of Turks accused of using Bylock app despite never having used it

#85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It says in the article She knew the arrest was coming. She'd already lost her job, because traces of the app known as Bylock were found on her phone.

Yes but whats the process? Were traces of the app found by her employer? Are employers searching employees phones?

As others have commented, it was just a matter of the ISP identifying all clients doing DNS lookups or connecting to the Bylock domain.

The government have complete control of all ISPs and mobile network operators in Turkey. They don't own them, but you can't give people Internet access without joining the government censorship/logging program.

As she was a teacher she would be employed by the government, and they just fire everyone employed in the government automatically when their names show up on the blacklist. I suspected firing of family members and friends that are connected to falsely accused person is done manually.

Also it doesn't really matter if the person is employed by the government or not. No employer would dare to keep anyone that is blacklisted as the employer would probably be accused themselves of helping a terrorist if they kept them. Plus, obviously, most big corps in Turkey are run by Erdoğans friends and family directly and indirectly.

Re: Thousands of Turks accused of using Bylock app despite never having used it

#86
post #56
post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I bet that on HN you'll find a lot of support for jailing people who install a let's say Nazi chat app on their phone. This is pure flame-bait and will not result in any positive contributions to this conversation.

The magnitude of the down votes on his comment lend some weight to his criticism.

You don’t see any middle ground between downvotes and jailing? Not even a little?

Re: Thousands of Turks accused of using Bylock app despite never having used it

#87

This is the creepiest thing I've ever read. As a teen, I was absolutely sure the Internet would liberate us all never saw it being a weapon of oppression as much as it has become. :-(

When were you a teen?

I remember having the exact same thoughts when I was a teen. I think it was in 1990 I was at college in the UK and I remember reading a Usenet thread about some student riots going on in Portugal. The media coverage at the time was completely off from what I was hearing from the students 'online'. I remember really believing that the internet really would liberate us all with unfettered access to truth and communication and so on.

Fast forward a few years to 1995 and one Christmas (I was in the US then) I decided to take a look at the 'web' and the liberation it had brought so far. I called it my deep dive into the dark underbelly of the Internet.

And what I found on that night over my dial-up connection stays with me to this day: facism, racism, gore, bestiality, hatred, child porn.

Yes, the Internet liberates us. It allows us to freely be the humans we are, on a larger scale. Unfortunately, humanity has a rather large dark side to it.

So this story doesn't surprise me in the least - but I still hold out hope that we may one day do better.

Re: Thousands of Turks accused of using Bylock app despite never having used it

#88

This seems to be a growing trend, mostly in journalism; Blame technology. Just recently there was a article going around about how Google's search algorithm was at fault of keeping two sisters apart. And entire multi page write up on how our lives are at the whims of computers and algorithms. Then to be told that the one sister could not find the other because she changes her name online to protect her identity. Now…

This post is 100% reflection. The press is merely trying to give all of us working in the CS fields the ethical observations we've all but ignored over the past decade, as this profession has grown.

Re: Thousands of Turks accused of using Bylock app despite never having used it

#89

This seems to be a growing trend, mostly in journalism; Blame technology. Just recently there was a article going around about how Google's search algorithm was at fault of keeping two sisters apart. And entire multi page write up on how our lives are at the whims of computers and algorithms. Then to be told that the one sister could not find the other because she changes her name online to protect her identity. Now…

While the government policy is ultimately what causes people to be jailed, you don’t think it’s important to focus on how technology uniquely exacerbates the problem by making it scalable?

This is one of the few tech headlines that mention number of LOC that is basically and technically accurate. It does seem that a single — and trivial — line of code has led to the tragicomical punishment of thousands of innocent citizens:

       
Yes this government has been for many years unjustly suppressing its own citizens — but the story here is how the targeted group used a very simple hack to frustrate the government’s idiotic tactics. To just summarize this story as “Turkish government wrongly jailing citizens” doesn’t do justice to the absurd details and process involved.

Re: Thousands of Turks accused of using Bylock app despite never having used it

#90

This seems to be a growing trend, mostly in journalism; Blame technology. Just recently there was a article going around about how Google's search algorithm was at fault of keeping two sisters apart. And entire multi page write up on how our lives are at the whims of computers and algorithms. Then to be told that the one sister could not find the other because she changes her name online to protect her identity. Now…

This post is 100% reflection. The press is merely trying to give all of us working in the CS fields the ethical observations we've all but ignored over the past decade, as this profession has grown.

I’d argue it should be more pointed towards the government using flimsy evidence to arrest people. It dances around that point without taking a hard stance that what the Turkish government is doing is essentially a human rights violation. It’s not the single line of code putting people in jail, it’s the government. While that line of code is significant, it’s not the only thing.
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