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Fuze for Nintendo Switch: An easy-to-learn text-based programming language

fuze.co.uk

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Re: Fuze for Nintendo Switch: An easy-to-learn text-based programming language

#81
post #72
post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Eh, what. You can connect any modern device to a tv through hdmi and hdmi convertor. Pc:s, phones, pads...

I've noticed this kind of response before - recall that when Dropbox was first shown to HN, one of the responses was something along the lines of "This is trivial to set up with a linux box and (esoteric techno-babble follows)." Not wrong, per se, but a super-technical HN reader was not the target of Dropbox, and I feel like it's the same situation here. While you could, I guess, plug your HDMI cable from your comput…

> Not wrong, per se, but a super-technical HN reader was not the target of Dropbox, and I feel like it's the same situation here.

Even for highly technical users, "pay someone else to do something trivial for me, because they do it well" is still a huge draw.

Re: Fuze for Nintendo Switch: An easy-to-learn text-based programming language

#82

I so, so wish something like Fuze was available for ioS. I'm an old-school ZX-Spectrum tinkerer and I still miss Basic. I can't help thinking it would still be unsurpassed as a simple (text-based) way of teaching coding to kids.

There is an all called LowRes that implements a BASIC-like language. The sample games are really nice, the editor meh (no syntax coloring).

Re: Fuze for Nintendo Switch: An easy-to-learn text-based programming language

#83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are so many things like Fuze for iOS. I've tested a number of them on my kids over the years, and I'd suggest: Codea is great. Lua, not basic. Great asset management for games. Pythonista is pretty good. Python, not basic. Swift Playgrounds is pretty great. Swift, not basic. You can do pretty much anything, including 3D and AR.

You know what Lua, Python and Swift have in common? None of them are as immediately accessible as Basic. Visual programming languages like Scratch et al have risen for a reason.

Swift in a playground is as immediately accessible as basic.

My 5th grade son has been out of school sick this week, and he wanted to "learn to code" while he was out. Monday he started with scratch on RPi. He quickly hit the wall there; dragging blocks around was tedious and (from my perspective) the event model isn't obvious enough or rich enough to what he wanted (a simple space shooter).

He asked if he could try something where he could type his code. I decided to let him try swift playgrounds. As of this morning he's worked through the chapters on commands, composition, functions, for loops, and conditionals. He's completely baffled by the logic chapter -- he was in tears trying to understand the concept of NOT, and so I asked him to take a break from it. (I don't get it... he understand booleans fine, but the idea of negating the boolean is clearly throwing him.) He skipped ! and did fine with && so shrug. Fifth graders aren't going to get everything.

I have quibbles with the content progression in the Swift Playground lessons but overall it's working as intended. It's pretty buggy though -- sometimes the animated character is clearly on the wrong squares due to an apple bug and that really hurts learning comprehension.

The real carrot for him, though, is that he's learning the language that iOS apps are made in. That's really motivating him.

With his older siblings I helped them learn Codea and while Lua is great for learning, they got hung up on the concept of per-frame update functions, which is not a Lua thing but a Codea thing. I think an OOP model is a better metaphor for learners. They had fun in Codea but none of it stuck with them.

My six year old daughter is also working (slowly) through swift playgrounds. She asked me for help and when I did she berated me for not using camel case. God help me when she learns about tabs versus spaces.

Anyway: screw BASIC.

Re: Fuze for Nintendo Switch: An easy-to-learn text-based programming language

#84
post #72
post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Eh, what. You can connect any modern device to a tv through hdmi and hdmi convertor. Pc:s, phones, pads...

I've noticed this kind of response before - recall that when Dropbox was first shown to HN, one of the responses was something along the lines of "This is trivial to set up with a linux box and (esoteric techno-babble follows)." Not wrong, per se, but a super-technical HN reader was not the target of Dropbox, and I feel like it's the same situation here. While you could, I guess, plug your HDMI cable from your comput…

> What's being demonstrated here is "look kids, it IS possible for YOU to write code and run it on a video game console! YOU can become a game developer, if you learn about this stuff!"

You do realize that people play game on PC too? The main issue that you are trying to address, i think, is whether there are other frameworks in teaching kids programming with games?

In, fact the part of world where i live in, it is much more expensive to buy a nintendo switch than to assemble a computer and hook it up to your tv and use scratch to teach the kids.

Re: Fuze for Nintendo Switch: An easy-to-learn text-based programming language

#85
post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Depends on your background, if you are .Net maybe F#, Java maybe Kotlin, PHP (and I say this as someone who writes PHP as a day job) maybe any other language in existence. Functional programming is a completely different conceptual model and even if you don't use it day to day it teaches you some important principles.

I have been badly taught Java at university (not sure if the course sucked, or I did, but I am a blunder) and have just found myself drawn into the JS world. I really enjoy the concepts of OO, but I feel like my knowledge is very shallow. Is it good if I rebuild my foundation on JS? I feel like JS is a bit, uh, messy.

Do yourself a favor (if you want to be a web developer):

Understand JavaScript deeply.

Write your applications in TypeScript.

Re: Fuze for Nintendo Switch: An easy-to-learn text-based programming language

#86
post #44
post #37

... As opposed to all those non-text-based programming languages?

It's important to distinguish from visual/block-based programming environments directed at families and children, such as Lego Mindstorms, https://scratch.mit.edu/ , https://developers.google.com/blockly/ , etc.

I disagree. When talking about things you don't need to go out of your way to indicate you are the same as 99% of the group you are in. It is assumed. You need to go out of your way to indicate when you are NOT like 99% of the group.

and the fact that it's for the switch doesn't make one automatically assume it's part of the visual programming group because most of the switch games were probably programmed with text based languages.

Re: Fuze for Nintendo Switch: An easy-to-learn text-based programming language

#87

This looks awesome and I can't wait to give it a whirl with my kids. I am, however, a little concerned about one of Dijkstra's "unpleasant truths"[0]: > It is practically impossible to teach good programming to students that have had a prior exposure to BASIC: as potential programmers they are mentally mutilated beyond hope of regeneration. I'm not qualified to interpret Dijkstra, so how serious of a warning or truth…

I started as a kid with BASIC on an Apple II, went on to get a computer science degree, and worked as a developer for 22 years before becoming a teacher. The limitations of BASIC actually created a desire in me to learn better languages like Pascal.

Re: Fuze for Nintendo Switch: An easy-to-learn text-based programming language

#88

This makes me so excited. I grew up just after the BASIC era and my first computer was a 486 running MS-DOS (without a BASIC interpreter), so my introduction to programming came quite late. I had endless fun tinkering around in a commercial product called DIV Games Studio [1]. It included a very simple language with everything from parallel game loops to video modes, in an IDE with a debugger, sprite editor etc. You…

MS-DOS shipped with QBASIC. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/QBasic#History

Or GW-BASIC, for people and computers of a certain age.

Re: Fuze for Nintendo Switch: An easy-to-learn text-based programming language

#89
post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Depends on your background, if you are .Net maybe F#, Java maybe Kotlin, PHP (and I say this as someone who writes PHP as a day job) maybe any other language in existence. Functional programming is a completely different conceptual model and even if you don't use it day to day it teaches you some important principles.

I have been badly taught Java at university (not sure if the course sucked, or I did, but I am a blunder) and have just found myself drawn into the JS world. I really enjoy the concepts of OO, but I feel like my knowledge is very shallow. Is it good if I rebuild my foundation on JS? I feel like JS is a bit, uh, messy.

It’s a bit dated, but read “JavaScript, The Good Parts”. Also, check out the Ramda.js library, which brings quite a few good functional programming (FP) techniques to JS.

Function scope is good.

Closures are good.

Higher order functions are good.

Partial function application is good :-)

Warning: if you get too used to FP style programming in JS, Java will feel quite painful afterward.

Re: Fuze for Nintendo Switch: An easy-to-learn text-based programming language

#90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is absolutely what they're doing. It condenses quite easily even to: import random import time while True: col = random.randint(30, 48) print("\x1b[{}m{}\x1b[0m".format(col, "Hello World")) time.sleep(1) Which is still pretty obtuse, but the "random colours" task seems hand-picked to penalize Python. It neglects to mention that Fuze has virtually no utility beyond an educational curio, too, versus Python which i…

And yet, the example correctly points out that Python, while a suitable choice, is not the ideal choice when it comes to programming for kids. Classroom time is precious, and kids need to be able to get right into the meat of things. Things that are easy for us to grok, like imports and functions vs methods, are tough for raw beginners. And _no_ kid should be forced to contend with ANSI escape sequences! More appropr…

One could argue that Fuze - a commercial programming language - is a bunch of extra gunk versus the free, open source and widely available alternative of almost any other language.

But you're right, a fairer comparison would be against a Python learning environment that sweeps some of the cruft and gotchas under the rug, and complexity is very tough for beginners.

Speaking from experience running and helping in workshops, I found a lot of Python learners would name their code "somemodule.py" after the module they're learning about, and this would subsequently break "import somemodule". So there's a lot of merit in "safer" environments.

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