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Intentional Fire-Spreading by “Firehawk” Raptors in Northern Australia

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Re: Intentional Fire-Spreading by “Firehawk” Raptors in Northern Australia

#81

Post by FroshKiller »

yipopov wrote: post #43
duncan_bayne wrote: post #9

"Journal of Ethnobiology" "Though Aboriginal rangers and others who deal with bushfires take into account the risks posed by raptors that cause controlled burns to jump across firebreaks, official skepticism about the reality of avian fire-spreading hampers effective planning for landscape management and restoration. Via ethno-ornithological workshops and controlled field experiments with land managers, our collabora…

Yes, this story definitely has a certain WE WUZ feel to it.

Why don't you explain what you mean by that?

Re: Intentional Fire-Spreading by “Firehawk” Raptors in Northern Australia

#82

Post by robotresearcher »

DeusExMachina wrote: post #55
blocked_again wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can never convince an animal to give it's food in promise of a place in heaven or to die for it's country. That's something only humans are capable of. Beat that!

Besides the snark, you are right. No other animal understands the concept of sacrificing something today to get something better in the future.

Not at all.

Many animals cache food for the winter.

Many animals will fight to the death to defend their territory, mates, or offspring.

Some animals cultivate crops, e.g, ants growing fungus.

Many animals actively forage to feed their offspring.

Re: Intentional Fire-Spreading by “Firehawk” Raptors in Northern Australia

#83

Post by nkoren »

saguro wrote: post #78
DeusExMachina wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We are the only mammal with consciousness, which leads to knowledge of the future and the discerning of good and evil. Despite the fact that we still don’t understand the least about how consciousness arises in our brain, we are nonetheless the only animal that shows this. Even in cases like monkeys recognizing themselves una mirror, no animal seem to go past that and be aware of the future like we do.

> discerning of good and evil Humans don't have such a capacity. The notions of 'good' and 'evil' have historically been in flux and went through many huge changes. Modern humans consider the typical behaviors of past humans as 'evil'. Vikings - rape after conquering is good. People today: that's evil. India until 2 generations ago - arranged marriage is good. Today that's evil. Homosexuality - has oscillated many ti…

> India until 2 generations ago - arranged marriage is good. Today that's evil.

Suggest you do some homework. Something like 80%-90% of marriages in India are still arranged. And most people are pretty happy with this situation, or at least no more miserable than "Love marriages" -- which remain highly controversial -- would make them.

Re: Intentional Fire-Spreading by “Firehawk” Raptors in Northern Australia

#84

Post by mschuster91 »

coldcode wrote: post #77
drakonka wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Cats don't need to come up with reasons why they're special. They just are.

Cats are tool using as well: we are the tool.

We actually live in a symbiotic relationship with cats: we provide them with noms and warmth (and the cleaning of their litterboxes), they reward us with love. And the occasional thrown-off-the-table TV.

Re: Intentional Fire-Spreading by “Firehawk” Raptors in Northern Australia

#85

Post by robotresearcher »

JoeAltmaier wrote: post #76
FroshKiller wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Squirrels bury acorns they could eat that day so they can have food in the winter instead.

Squirrels don't even remember where they've buried the acorns. They just bury and dig, and with enough squirrels involved it works out. Its an instinct that happens to contribute to survival.

They sacrifice something - an abundant summer acorn - today to get something better - a scarce winter acorn - in the future. It's a clear counter example to the claim above.

Re: Intentional Fire-Spreading by “Firehawk” Raptors in Northern Australia

#86

Post by rtpg »

meri_dian wrote: post #69
taneq wrote: post #7

So we're not the only: - tool-using animal - fire-using animal - language-using animal - animal which domesticates other animals - animal which builds complex structures Aha! I know! We're the only animal which continually comes up with reasons why we're special.

In each of those categories we're far and away the best. I really don't understand this feeling that humans need to be modest or that describing ourselves as special is wrong. We are special. I think among some people that are frustrated with the human world for whatever - either personal or abstract - reason, there's a feeling of misanthropy that colors their thinking, and so they try to belittle humanity.

I bet a little bit of it in the modern world is rationalization for eating and generally mistreating animals.

Re: Intentional Fire-Spreading by “Firehawk” Raptors in Northern Australia

#87

Post by saguro »

nkoren wrote: post #83
saguro wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> discerning of good and evil Humans don't have such a capacity. The notions of 'good' and 'evil' have historically been in flux and went through many huge changes. Modern humans consider the typical behaviors of past humans as 'evil'. Vikings - rape after conquering is good. People today: that's evil. India until 2 generations ago - arranged marriage is good. Today that's evil. Homosexuality - has oscillated many ti…

> India until 2 generations ago - arranged marriage is good. Today that's evil. Suggest you do some homework. Something like 80%-90% of marriages in India are still arranged. And most people are pretty happy with this situation, or at least no more miserable than "Love marriages" -- which remain highly controversial -- would make them.

The definition of 'arranged marriage' today has been neutered. Until 2 generations ago, arranged marriage meant that women had absolutely no say in their marriage - it was at the decision of the parents and to further the desires of the parents.

Today, arranged marriage means that the woman's parents will present her with prospective marriage partners but leave the decision making to her, including veto or asking the parents to 'arrange' for a man that the woman fancies - kind of like Tinder but the matching algorithm is parents. That version of arranged marriage is straight up better than the (serious) dating scene in westernized countries.

The original version is definitely considered evil by today's morals.

Re: Intentional Fire-Spreading by “Firehawk” Raptors in Northern Australia

#88

Post by kaybe »

viridian wrote: post #5

This is super cool, if a bit scary. Man Australia has it all though, 8/10 of the deadliest spiders, half the deadliest snakes, crocodiles, rockfish, and now firebirds. Inhabiting Australia is a testament to man's arrogance.

I wouldn't be surprised if all of these killed less humans or even creatures than the humans (and their cars) combined.

Re: Intentional Fire-Spreading by “Firehawk” Raptors in Northern Australia

#89

Post by jahans3 »

rtpg wrote: post #86
meri_dian wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In each of those categories we're far and away the best. I really don't understand this feeling that humans need to be modest or that describing ourselves as special is wrong. We are special. I think among some people that are frustrated with the human world for whatever - either personal or abstract - reason, there's a feeling of misanthropy that colors their thinking, and so they try to belittle humanity.

I bet a little bit of it in the modern world is rationalization for eating and generally mistreating animals.

Wouldn't be surprised. The more we learn about the animals we eat the more we seem to learn that they're sentient, have a full range of emotions, and they most definitely experience suffering because of intensive farming and other things we put them through.

Re: Intentional Fire-Spreading by “Firehawk” Raptors in Northern Australia

#90

Post by musage »

duncan_bayne wrote: post #32
roadnottaken wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How about: -art (cave paintings, etc) -music it's striking to see 6-12 month old infants bopping up and down to music. They're not taught to do this and I've never heard of animals responding to music...

Science? Engineering? Space travel? And we're only just getting started. Wait for climate engineering and asteroid / Lunar mining...

Personal integrity? Calm? Harmony with surroundings?

I wonder if there are animals that produce ElsaGate videos, or come up with rationalizations for them. I'm sure there's animals who eat their offspring in certain situations, but are there any that just bite them to death, to then proceed to run in hysterical circles, counting symbols and telling themselves "narratives"? Where can I find such a pathetic thing in the wild?

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