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Novogratz Halts Hedge Fund, Says Bitcoin May Drop to $8,000

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Re: Novogratz Halts Hedge Fund, Says Bitcoin May Drop to $8,000

#81

Post by stubish »

lucaspiller wrote: post #63
tom_mellior wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> it's too technical to be used casually In casual use with your mobile phone, you are shown a QR code, scan it, tap "OK", and it's done. Not that technical. Billions of people with smartphones could handle that perfectly. You're right about transactions being slow and expensive, and that is certainly a much bigger problem. That and the fact that there are still very few places accepting it.

> That and the fact that there are still very few places accepting it. This is one thing I don’t get. In countries like China and India (to name the two countries I know about) mobile payment apps are ubiquitous. You go in to a shop, scan a QR code, and boom your payment is done. This is what crytocurrencies promised, but instead more closed apps came to fill the market. What happened?

They take zero effort to setup, since it just adds to your existing phone bill. Unlike bitcoin, where people need to install apps, navigate subscribing to financial-like systems they don't really understand. The conversion rate will be tiny, and very few people who consider paying with Bitcoin will complete the process and actually be in a position to scan the QR code and hit the button. None of the other crypto currencies are even on the public's radar, and won't be unless Visa or Mastercard join in.

Re: Novogratz Halts Hedge Fund, Says Bitcoin May Drop to $8,000

#83

Post by bootlooped »

eastendguy wrote: post #64
lucaspiller wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> That and the fact that there are still very few places accepting it. This is one thing I don’t get. In countries like China and India (to name the two countries I know about) mobile payment apps are ubiquitous. You go in to a shop, scan a QR code, and boom your payment is done. This is what crytocurrencies promised, but instead more closed apps came to fill the market. What happened?

All these apps give the government more control, that is why their use is encouraged. Bitcoin "as app" (once or if it works) will be more like cash payments, privacy wise. That is were I see the main advantage. I find it spooky what Visa and Mastercard now about all of us... at least about me.

> Bitcoin "as app" (once or if it works) will be more like cash payments, privacy wise.

One massive caveat is that all Bitcoin transactions are public, traceable, and permanently stored in the Bitcoin network. In most ways it's worse than cash, in some ways it's probably even worse than credit cards.

Re: Novogratz Halts Hedge Fund, Says Bitcoin May Drop to $8,000

#84

Post by 0wing »

Snackchez wrote: post #12
mutteraloo wrote: post #9

It could also go back to $100. Bitcoin has no mainstream use right now. It's too expensive to transact in terms of money and time, it's too volatile to be a store of value, it's too technical to be used casually, it's too fragile since it gets hacked every which way, and it's too easily copied to be rare.

>Being hacked every which way Do you want to clarify this? If you meant what I think you meant, you're incorrect.

Numerous cases of backdoored wallets, or poorly implemented weak private keys generated from javascript, or straight up theft from deposits.

While a tiny aspect of dealing with Bitcoin is secure (key pairs) [1], actually using Bitcoin has proven to be a mess for almost the majority of users.

This is not a user friendly experience for most users.

[1] https://lbc.cryptoguru.org/about

Re: Novogratz Halts Hedge Fund, Says Bitcoin May Drop to $8,000

#85

Post by coralreef »

0wing wrote: post #66
coralreef wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What scheme are you talking about? It's an unregulated market, so yes, there are scams and dumps occurring. However BTC has huge volume, so it takes huge volume and risk to manipulate it. Or manipulation from the exchange itself. Those are risks that the informed trader is aware of. Any and all securities go up and down, whether it is justified or not.

Nearly every cryptocurrency followed Bitcoins scheme, wherein massive quantities of the supply were produced for the first few weeks to a small group of users, so any later users entering these systems must than buy from those horders or spend more and more capital on the increasingly expensive and reducing output of mining. It's not exactly a ponzi or pyramid scheme, but the manipulative intent is clear so a new ter…

Yeah, there were relatively more coins produced early on. Those coins were also pretty much worthless early on.

Re: Novogratz Halts Hedge Fund, Says Bitcoin May Drop to $8,000

#86

Post by Helloworldboy »

geezerjay wrote: post #40
coralreef wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People always forget to include future innovations in their projections. It's as if they don't believe (or know) that software can rapidly improve. The lightning network looks very promising in its ability to scale and reduce fees. It would make transactions nearly instantaneous, have reasonable fees, and help scale the network.

> People always forget to include future innovations in their projections. It's as if they don't believe (or know) that software can rapidly improve. And you posted that comment while driving your flying car on your way to alpha centauri, right? Foolosh cargo cult beliefs such as the ones you've illustrated do not serve as any basis to make investment decisions.

This comment is mind-bogglingly retarded.

There should be a knowledge test to comment in Bitcoin threads on HN.

Re: Novogratz Halts Hedge Fund, Says Bitcoin May Drop to $8,000

#87

Post by coralreef »

zenlikethat wrote: post #75
coralreef wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Everyone thought Netflix was a useless mail-order DVD company until it dominated streaming video. Everyone thought Amazon would never make a profit until it revealed the profit monster that is AWS. No one can predict the future, all you can do is take the information you have available today and come to your own conclusion. If you don't understand the implications of cryptocurrency on society and money, then that's y…

If "everyone" though Netflix was "useless", then its win came out of the blue. Meanwhile you're trying to argue that the current hype around Bitcoin is justified because of something that _might_ happen in the future. There were a lot of massively over-hyped Internet companies too. They _could_ have developed technology and a big business. But the opposite happened - they went bankrupt.

I'm sure some very smart people saw a path to internet streaming distribution and negotiation leverage with their content base.

I don't know if the hype/price is justified, I just know cryptocurrencies are going to change the world. It seems to me that something that important is probably worth betting on, and not against.

Re: Novogratz Halts Hedge Fund, Says Bitcoin May Drop to $8,000

#88

Post by mrb »

mutteraloo wrote: post #9

It could also go back to $100. Bitcoin has no mainstream use right now. It's too expensive to transact in terms of money and time, it's too volatile to be a store of value, it's too technical to be used casually, it's too fragile since it gets hacked every which way, and it's too easily copied to be rare.

«too expensive to transact»

Proved wrong by 300k transactions per day willing to pay a median fee of $30+.

«too volatile to be a store of value»

Proved wrong on the long term; has shown to be a fantastic store of value over 7 years: http://bitcoin.zorinaq.com/price/

«too technical»

Only gets easier over time.

«too fragile since it gets hacked »

Hardware wallets have pretty much solved hacking (plus can be backed up on paper in case they are lost, etc)

Re: Novogratz Halts Hedge Fund, Says Bitcoin May Drop to $8,000

#89

Post by kjrose »

So basically he’s saying that there is no legitimate way to apply a value to bitcoin so the price could be worth 100 or a million a bitcoin.

Which is correct since the value of it is mostly driven by speculation right now. There’s no telling how much it will swing.

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