Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Novogratz Halts Hedge Fund, Says Bitcoin May Drop to $8,000

bloomberg.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

61–70 of 121 posts

Re: Novogratz Halts Hedge Fund, Says Bitcoin May Drop to $8,000

#61

Post by hisabness »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #21
jpmattia wrote: post #7

For comparison, he also thinks it's going to $40K by EOY 2018. http://www.businessinsider.com/novogratz-bitcoin-could-be-at...

For further comparison, he ran an $8 billion fund that utterly failed to weather the 2008 financial crisis [1]. Prior to the IPO, he and Fortress' management "borrowed money, used $250 million of it to pay themselves a dividend, and used part of the I.P.O. proceeds to pay back the loan." [1] https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2009/04/fortress-group200904...

paying yourself with borrowed money sounds good to me. as along as its not recourse that is...

Re: Novogratz Halts Hedge Fund, Says Bitcoin May Drop to $8,000

#62

Post by [deleted] »

slphil wrote: post #54
ransom1538 wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My entire wallet was stolen [i] -- all that hard work. But that is great news Bitcoin never got hacked -- I got nervous there. /sarcasm http://www.cryptsysettlement.com/ [i]

Yes, this is not a Bitcoin vulnerability. Getting access to your wallet is not the same as cracking it.

[deleted]

Re: Novogratz Halts Hedge Fund, Says Bitcoin May Drop to $8,000

#63

Post by lucaspiller »

tom_mellior wrote: post #53
mutteraloo wrote: post #9

It could also go back to $100. Bitcoin has no mainstream use right now. It's too expensive to transact in terms of money and time, it's too volatile to be a store of value, it's too technical to be used casually, it's too fragile since it gets hacked every which way, and it's too easily copied to be rare.

> it's too technical to be used casually In casual use with your mobile phone, you are shown a QR code, scan it, tap "OK", and it's done. Not that technical. Billions of people with smartphones could handle that perfectly. You're right about transactions being slow and expensive, and that is certainly a much bigger problem. That and the fact that there are still very few places accepting it.

> That and the fact that there are still very few places accepting it.

This is one thing I don’t get. In countries like China and India (to name the two countries I know about) mobile payment apps are ubiquitous. You go in to a shop, scan a QR code, and boom your payment is done. This is what crytocurrencies promised, but instead more closed apps came to fill the market. What happened?

Re: Novogratz Halts Hedge Fund, Says Bitcoin May Drop to $8,000

#64

Post by eastendguy »

lucaspiller wrote: post #63
tom_mellior wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> it's too technical to be used casually In casual use with your mobile phone, you are shown a QR code, scan it, tap "OK", and it's done. Not that technical. Billions of people with smartphones could handle that perfectly. You're right about transactions being slow and expensive, and that is certainly a much bigger problem. That and the fact that there are still very few places accepting it.

> That and the fact that there are still very few places accepting it. This is one thing I don’t get. In countries like China and India (to name the two countries I know about) mobile payment apps are ubiquitous. You go in to a shop, scan a QR code, and boom your payment is done. This is what crytocurrencies promised, but instead more closed apps came to fill the market. What happened?

All these apps give the government more control, that is why their use is encouraged.

Bitcoin "as app" (once or if it works) will be more like cash payments, privacy wise. That is were I see the main advantage. I find it spooky what Visa and Mastercard now about all of us... at least about me.

Re: Novogratz Halts Hedge Fund, Says Bitcoin May Drop to $8,000

#65

Post by o_____________o »

daveguy wrote: post #60
coralreef wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Pushing transactions into sidechains helps free the main network from congestion. So while it may not be technically true that the main network's capabilities have changed, users should see massive improvements.

When no one uses bitcoin anymore there will no longer be any congestion. Solid.

What is it about bitcoin conversations that turn HN into a Reddit-esque sarcasm pit? We can debate difficult topics with civility.

Re: Novogratz Halts Hedge Fund, Says Bitcoin May Drop to $8,000

#66

Post by 0wing »

coralreef wrote: post #55
geezerjay wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The only way to determine true value is to go through these phases You're referring to a pump and dump scheme as "phases". You don't set high values by scamming unsuspecting fools.

What scheme are you talking about? It's an unregulated market, so yes, there are scams and dumps occurring. However BTC has huge volume, so it takes huge volume and risk to manipulate it. Or manipulation from the exchange itself. Those are risks that the informed trader is aware of. Any and all securities go up and down, whether it is justified or not.

Nearly every cryptocurrency followed Bitcoins scheme, wherein massive quantities of the supply were produced for the first few weeks to a small group of users, so any later users entering these systems must than buy from those horders or spend more and more capital on the increasingly expensive and reducing output of mining.

It's not exactly a ponzi or pyramid scheme, but the manipulative intent is clear so a new term is needed.

It's a Satoshi scheme.

Re: Novogratz Halts Hedge Fund, Says Bitcoin May Drop to $8,000

#67

Post by charlesdm »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #21
jpmattia wrote: post #7

For comparison, he also thinks it's going to $40K by EOY 2018. http://www.businessinsider.com/novogratz-bitcoin-could-be-at...

For further comparison, he ran an $8 billion fund that utterly failed to weather the 2008 financial crisis [1]. Prior to the IPO, he and Fortress' management "borrowed money, used $250 million of it to pay themselves a dividend, and used part of the I.P.O. proceeds to pay back the loan." [1] https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2009/04/fortress-group200904...

This is called a dividend recap, and there is not necessarily anything wrong with it if you have a profitable firm and if used prudently.

Re: Novogratz Halts Hedge Fund, Says Bitcoin May Drop to $8,000

#68

Post by charlesdm »

coralreef wrote: post #23
thisisit wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And he also says "It is going to become the biggest bubble of our lifetime" in the video embedded with the bloomberg article.

The internet was a big bubble, and quite a few stocks survived and made handsome returns.

He doesn't care about survival. He's a speculator who wants to pump up the bubble, ride the wave, and cash out billions in a few years. Nothing wrong with that though, as long as he doesn't do anything illegal.

Re: Novogratz Halts Hedge Fund, Says Bitcoin May Drop to $8,000

#70

Post by slphil »

slphil wrote: post #54
ransom1538 wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My entire wallet was stolen [i] -- all that hard work. But that is great news Bitcoin never got hacked -- I got nervous there. /sarcasm http://www.cryptsysettlement.com/ [i]

Yes, this is not a Bitcoin vulnerability. Getting access to your wallet is not the same as cracking it.

Don't understand why I'm being downvoted. Don't put your coins on an exchange, ever, unless you want to risk them being lost. This is cryptocurrency 101.
Post reply on HN