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Google to open artificial intelligence centre in China

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Re: Google to open artificial intelligence centre in China

#81

Didn't expect a simple job offering would bring all these political arguments and speculation from people hardly read any Chinese or understand Chinese history & economics. smh. It's just business, China has a strong STEM talent pool, and Google can easily select them from top in top at a competitive price.

Every HN thread about china has the exact same anti-chinese comments. Every single one.

Re: Google to open artificial intelligence centre in China

#82

Perhaps this is because I don't have the hard facts and figures right in front of me, but I have a hard time believing that foreign tech investments in China really pay off. The Chinese strategy seems to be to woo big foreign companies, build a critical mass of local users who want the product, ban or otherwise limit the foreign company's influence in China, then develop a home-grown Chinese version of the foreign co…

Google the phrase "forced technology transfer". The basic strategy is to woo Western companies with extremely cheap labor and vague promises about access to the Chinese market, in order to get the companies to export most/all of their capital equipment and business expertise overseas. Then this is used as leverage to force them to adopt PRC-friendly policies (see Apple and government censorship in China, for example)…

Makes total sense in my opinion. Google has either the option to use China's cheap labor and quirky laws or stay out. No one has forced google to come to China.

Re: Google to open artificial intelligence centre in China

#83
post #2

When we'll look back 20 years from now, we'll we see Google in the same light as we did IBM after helping the Nazi with their computers? Will Google allow its DeepMind technology to be used to spy on Chinese citizens and dissidents?

Was it known the nazis were evil when IBM helped them? Did IBM even know what their stuff was used for? Different times, different situations. The US was full of anti-semites too, and didn't hesitate to put anyone with Japanese heritage into concentration camps after Pearl Harbor - and nobody cared. That stuff has been covered up / hardly mentioned, ever since. And the US and its citizens doesn't seem to have a probl…

> Was it known the nazis were evil when IBM helped them? Did IBM even know what their stuff was used for?

Yes. That was clearly shown in https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IBM_and_the_Holocaust

Edwin Black made a pretty convincing case that the IBM chairman Thomas J. Watson, Sr was quite aware of what the IBM equipment was used for - and actually quite enthusiastic about it all.

So think of that connection next time you use "Watson".

Re: Google to open artificial intelligence centre in China

#84
post #74
post #68

Since the beginning, Google has claimed it was an AI company. They have killed their mantra "do no evil" and now they are putting labs in a country with lower values of ethic. Recently they were selling their robotic activity because it was too frightening. All their actions are consistent with a single aim: build an AI like in singularity or terminator.

Maybe you should not use anything Made in China, 'a country with lower values of ethic', because anything Made in China you consumed contribute to the economy of the China. If you continue to use made in China, your criticizing Google setting up an AI lab in China is just hypocrisy.

I did not expect my comment to be interpreted as a critic of China. I have nothing against Chinese people and I am glad that Google setting in China will help the country to develop.

Re: Google to open artificial intelligence centre in China

#85
post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn't something published available to all the world? If Google first publishes some result X, and Chinese researchers find this result, they are free to use this result to publish some result Y, regardless of whether Google opens an AI center in China.

This will sound condescending, but it's not meant to be, The short answer is no. The field of research is completely fucked up. You are incentivized to explain your research in as much detail as is required to get a top publication (which honestly isn't much, just look at NIPS this year, there are a ton of overly vague, "exploratory" pubs that really describe jack-shit) but absolutely no further, as this could allow…

I think this post explains something critical regarding long term research policy strategy and I wish I could upvote it more!

Re: Google to open artificial intelligence centre in China

#86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All capable governments are spying on their dissidents. However, the CCP also detains dissidents on the basis of its spying even in low-profile cases[1], and has been using prisoners (in other words, more dissidents) as a source of organ "donations" for a long time[2]. All the articles I've read about this topic are about specific religious groups (Uyghurs/Falun Gong). The Chinese treatment of Islam is so openly host…

Would you say providing public education and moving people from dangerous area to safer places as a way of cleansing their cultures? If you are really interested in China, you should just go somewhere and see for yourself. Media from China and anywhere else in the world are just slanted mirrors. When some Uyghur terrorists hit a train station in southern China and killed innocent civilians, some western media titled…

> Would you say providing public education and moving people from dangerous area to safer places as a way of cleansing their cultures?

I actually agree that the cases of Tibetans and Uyghurs are not as black-and-white as the Western media portraits them, and I'm not sure if I should've brought up Larung Gar. But even your best-case interpretation sounds a lot like the standard justification of colonialism.

> If you are really interested in China, you should just go somewhere and see for yourself.

Been there twice. The only on-topic anecdote I have is that I went to see the Forbidden City, and a protester undressed and tried to hold up a banner at the same time. The Chinese handling was unlike anything I've seen in other countries: plain-clothed security guards wrapped her up in just seconds and carried her away (I couldn't even decipher her banner), and none of the domestic tourists around us even batted an eye. It was like a glitch in the matrix that everyone collectively pretended didn't happen. Pretty chilling, makes you wonder how many issues go unheard.

I'm planning to travel further West next time, but what do you suggest? Should I just stroll into Xinjiang and ask some locals if there's any truth to this organ harvest rumor, then come back to post on HN? That's the job of journalists, and they can't do their job.

> As for Taiwan, It's still a legacy problem of Chinese civil war

That doesn't really explain why the number of missiles keeps increasing.[1][2]

> actually there was a missile missent and crashed by Taiwan

Clumsy, sure, but we all know why Taiwan needs to handle these missiles in the first place, and it's not for offense.

[1] https://www.reuters.com/article/us-taiwan-china/china-on-tra... [2] http://www.scmp.com/news/china/policies-politics/article/208...

Re: Google to open artificial intelligence centre in China

#87
post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At its core, the goal of the two regimes (China, Nazi Germany) is the same: control information so that the existing regime is portrayed in a good light that preserves stability. Just because China isn't genocoding Jews doesn't mean they don't have hundreds of thousands of political prisoners, disadvantaged minorities, and a completely authoritarian government. As is, you would never hear of the North Korean concentr…

Can you give some credible sources on "Tibetan and Uighur genocides that are ongoing"?

Tibet: https://www.ncas.rutgers.edu/center-study-genocide-conflict-...

>"The Tibetan government in exile in India estimates that the death toll since 1950 due to starvation, outright violence, and other indirect causes amounts to 1.2 million. However, some Tibetologists place the figure closer to half a million. The non-governmental International Commission of Jurists (ICJ) released a report to the United Nations in 1959, and another in 1960, which documented accounts of atrocities and accused the Chinese of religious-based genocide in Tibet. "

Could possibly be biased by CIA it says.

Uighur: https://uhrp.org/featured-articles/arguing-genocide-xinjiang...

Ehh this is as biased as it probably gets and it doesn't really make it sound like genocide. I guess I had heard of this (and maybe Tibet too) as cultural genocides before, and got it mixed up.

Re: Google to open artificial intelligence centre in China

#88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It was more like irony, Mao also thanked Chiang who killed his some of his family members and he thanked America who killed his son. If you read history, Mao insisted on fighting against the Japanese invaders before Chang did. Do not forget KMT had America assistance in civil war, but they lost, because they were just too messy with economies and care too little about 90% of Chinese poor people.

Mao insisted on the KMT fighting Japanese invaders before Chiang did for sure, but he still didn’t bother committing substantial forces to the war. Mao also didn’t care much about poor people, see how many Chinese civilians died in the Seige of Changchun. Mao was basically a sociopath even if Chiang wasn’t much better; he was basically a smarter Donald Trump of his time, who knows what he would have written on weibo…

There was a group of communist soldiers fighting against Japanese invaders in northeast China Manchuria when KMT didn't officially do anything about that. Actually Chiang attacked communist army even when they were fighting together against Japan in later years. When it comes to Seige of Changchun, why KMT didn't go out fighting and just stay and rob people's food? Why didn't they just surrender or went out start to fight? Why waited to surrender in the end but with poor people had nothing to eat. That was a shame indeed. It was a cruel civil war, I cannot say which side is strictly morally superior, given innocent people got starved . Mao was a complicated person, there are people who thank him throughout life and people who hate him till death. He has done good and bad, he got rid of land lords, get the country united again, push hard on public education and extreme equality, but he also conducted the great leap and destructive political battles. it'll wait for probably another century that some historians can have some better estimation.
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