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Google Is Pulling YouTube Off the Fire TV and Echo Show

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Re: Google Is Pulling YouTube Off the Fire TV and Echo Show

#81

Post by dragonwriter »

mulmen wrote: post #71
bitsoda wrote: post #6

You know what, good for Google. I hate to sound like a child, but Amazon fired the first salvo by dropping the Chromecast a few years back. This move only seems fair.

Didn't Google block the ability to stream to Chromecasts? I'm not justifying anyone's behavior here but this is why the "they started it" argument is considered childish. These are all anti-customer moves which will hurt both companies in the long term.

> Didn't Google block the ability to stream to Chromecasts?

IIRC, they made backward incompatible changes to the protocol (which I don't think was ever public, but had been discovered and independently implemented) which effectively broke apps not using the official API implementations (which are limited to Android [Play Services, not AOSP], iOS, and Chrome [not Chromium, AFAIK].)

Re: Google Is Pulling YouTube Off the Fire TV and Echo Show

#82

Post by kuschku »

gremlinsinc wrote: post #73
bitsoda wrote: post #6

You know what, good for Google. I hate to sound like a child, but Amazon fired the first salvo by dropping the Chromecast a few years back. This move only seems fair.

Agreed. The thing that pisses me off, is that Amazon video doesn't even support Chromecast for streaming, how hard would it be to code that in? I bought firefly from amazon thinking I could easily stream it to my chromecast, but nope.. -- I won't get amazon video, or support any of there video things till I can. They need to let bygones be bygones and accept each others apps/gadget/technology to make it so each other…

> how hard would it be to code that in?

How hard is it to support a protocol that the vendor obfuscates, and changes frequently, to prevent you from streaming to it?

Interesting question. From my own experiences trying to build an open source library to stream to it (and to receive streams): Very hard when the vendor is Google.

The only way to stream to Chromecasts is with Google’s proprietary library, and Google will only license that to Amazon once Amazon kills their own App Store.

Re: Google Is Pulling YouTube Off the Fire TV and Echo Show

#83

Post by dhoulb »

joekrill wrote: post #52

They were probably actively preventing them from releasing a YouTube TV app for the FireTV as well, I'm guessing. I'd love to switch to YouTube TV (I've had MANY problems with PlayStation Vue, and Sling is decent, but missing some channels). They don't have a FireTV app, though. But frankly I'm ready to simply ditch my FireTV because of that alone. Throw in the fact that my FireTV is covered with ads now and it's kin…

That’s a really great point!

YouTube is probably the best placed brand in the whole market to offer a true OTT cable replacement. And Amazon wants to own that market with Channels.

Amazon would do anything to kill YouTube’s chances of making that happen, so I guess Google is firing some early warning shots!

I had been wondering why they were both so uppity about £30 dongles, but if they’re pre-competing for the £1000 a year cable market then it makes absolute sense!

Re: Google Is Pulling YouTube Off the Fire TV and Echo Show

#84

Post by bitmapbrother »

mulmen wrote: post #79
bitmapbrother wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The first version was a tour de force in TOS violations. It was such an abuse that I'm surprised Amazon were brazen enough to release it considering Google would drop the hammer once they saw it. I guess they thought they could do whatever they wanted with other companies properties. I don't know if the revised version violates the TOS, but I'm guessing it's compliant. This seems to be all about reciprocity with Goog…

The linked article doesn't make this case. Can you provide some more detail of what terms the original and current apps violate? e: Google's own explanation: “​We’ve been trying to reach agreement with Amazon to give consumers access to each other's products and services. But Amazon doesn't carry Google products like Chromecast and Google Home, doesn't make Prime Video available for Google Cast users, and last month…

The original version played YouTube videos without any ads, subscriptions, next video recommendations, auto-play and other things that Google thought were necessary for YouTube and its content creators. Amazon was basically stealing content from its creators and not even indirectly compensating them.

>Sounds like this is Google trying to exert leverage on Amazon.

Perhaps, but why should Google help Amazon sell their products, using content from Google's properties, when Amazon blacklists all of Google's products on their store.

Re: Google Is Pulling YouTube Off the Fire TV and Echo Show

#85

Post by dhoulb »

kuschku wrote: post #82
gremlinsinc wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agreed. The thing that pisses me off, is that Amazon video doesn't even support Chromecast for streaming, how hard would it be to code that in? I bought firefly from amazon thinking I could easily stream it to my chromecast, but nope.. -- I won't get amazon video, or support any of there video things till I can. They need to let bygones be bygones and accept each others apps/gadget/technology to make it so each other…

> how hard would it be to code that in? How hard is it to support a protocol that the vendor obfuscates, and changes frequently, to prevent you from streaming to it? Interesting question. From my own experiences trying to build an open source library to stream to it (and to receive streams): Very hard when the vendor is Google. The only way to stream to Chromecasts is with Google’s proprietary library, and Google wil…

Is the last part about licensing true (or sourced from somewhere)? Surely Amazon could just drop the Cast library into their iPhone and Android apps and they’d be all set? I can’t see Google stopping them (well maybe they would now it’s escalated, but they wouldn’t have last year.)

I assumed not supporting Cast was just an excuse not to stock Chromecasts etc on Amazon.

BTW I totally agree with the frustration of the Cast protocol not being more open, a tonne of cool standalone ‘browser on TV’ usecases like screensharing/dashboards/multiscreen aren’t possible on Chromecast (and it sucks). I assume they’re under a load of pressure from MPAA type groups to keep it locked down. (As though the TV is some holy box that must be protected.)

Re: Google Is Pulling YouTube Off the Fire TV and Echo Show

#86

Post by skybrian »

gremlinsinc wrote: post #73
bitsoda wrote: post #6

You know what, good for Google. I hate to sound like a child, but Amazon fired the first salvo by dropping the Chromecast a few years back. This move only seems fair.

Agreed. The thing that pisses me off, is that Amazon video doesn't even support Chromecast for streaming, how hard would it be to code that in? I bought firefly from amazon thinking I could easily stream it to my chromecast, but nope.. -- I won't get amazon video, or support any of there video things till I can. They need to let bygones be bygones and accept each others apps/gadget/technology to make it so each other…

It mostly works for me using Chrome on a MacBook to play Amazon video and casting the tab to Chromecast. However, I do have to disconnect and reconnect the Chromecast occasionally.

Maybe a Roku would be more reliable?

Re: Google Is Pulling YouTube Off the Fire TV and Echo Show

#87

Post by mulmen »

bitmapbrother wrote: post #84
mulmen wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The linked article doesn't make this case. Can you provide some more detail of what terms the original and current apps violate? e: Google's own explanation: “​We’ve been trying to reach agreement with Amazon to give consumers access to each other's products and services. But Amazon doesn't carry Google products like Chromecast and Google Home, doesn't make Prime Video available for Google Cast users, and last month…

The original version played YouTube videos without any ads, subscriptions, next video recommendations, auto-play and other things that Google thought were necessary for YouTube and its content creators. Amazon was basically stealing content from its creators and not even indirectly compensating them. >Sounds like this is Google trying to exert leverage on Amazon. Perhaps, but why should Google help Amazon sell their…

Ok but when was that version released? I have been watching YouTube on FireTV for years at this point with advertisements and subscriptions. The current move mentions nothing about TOS and instead mentions Amazon's refusal to sell Google devices.

Google doesn't have to help Amazon sell it's products but it would benefit both companies to cooperate instead of harming their customers to try and get a little more platform dominance. In this case both Amazon and Google are not acing in their customer interests and it will hurt them in the long run.

Re: Google Is Pulling YouTube Off the Fire TV and Echo Show

#88

Post by tinus_hn »

kuschku wrote: post #82
gremlinsinc wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agreed. The thing that pisses me off, is that Amazon video doesn't even support Chromecast for streaming, how hard would it be to code that in? I bought firefly from amazon thinking I could easily stream it to my chromecast, but nope.. -- I won't get amazon video, or support any of there video things till I can. They need to let bygones be bygones and accept each others apps/gadget/technology to make it so each other…

> how hard would it be to code that in? How hard is it to support a protocol that the vendor obfuscates, and changes frequently, to prevent you from streaming to it? Interesting question. From my own experiences trying to build an open source library to stream to it (and to receive streams): Very hard when the vendor is Google. The only way to stream to Chromecasts is with Google’s proprietary library, and Google wil…

Receiving stream as if you are a Chromecast in an open source form is not likely to work because DRM.

Re: Google Is Pulling YouTube Off the Fire TV and Echo Show

#89

Post by tinus_hn »

mulmen wrote: post #77
quotha wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Okay, but how is Amazon violating TOS; they are using it the way it is meant to be used.

Google has redefined the way it is meant to be used to include "not by Amazon".

‘I am altering the deal. Pray I don’t alter it any further’

Re: Google Is Pulling YouTube Off the Fire TV and Echo Show

#90

Post by kuschku »

dhoulb wrote: post #85
kuschku wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> how hard would it be to code that in? How hard is it to support a protocol that the vendor obfuscates, and changes frequently, to prevent you from streaming to it? Interesting question. From my own experiences trying to build an open source library to stream to it (and to receive streams): Very hard when the vendor is Google. The only way to stream to Chromecasts is with Google’s proprietary library, and Google wil…

Is the last part about licensing true (or sourced from somewhere)? Surely Amazon could just drop the Cast library into their iPhone and Android apps and they’d be all set? I can’t see Google stopping them (well maybe they would now it’s escalated, but they wouldn’t have last year.) I assumed not supporting Cast was just an excuse not to stock Chromecasts etc on Amazon. BTW I totally agree with the frustration of the…

> Surely Amazon could just drop the Cast library into their iPhone and Android apps and they’d be all set?

The cast library doesn’t contain any of the code required to cast – all that code is in the Google Play Services in the system app, not in the library.

And you can obviously understand how Amazon can’t just reuse that.

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