Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

The compelling case for working less

bbc.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

81–90 of 242 posts

Re: The compelling case for working less

#81

Post by Banthum »

wsc981 wrote: post #32
ekianjo wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

＞ It's part primal - fear of insecurity and belonging to a social structure - part ego - accomplishment as confirmation of existence and your salary as a concrete number to compare favorably to others - and part culture and habit. You forget a big part I think: planning for your future. You don't know if you'll have a job 10 years from now. If you have kids you know you need a bunch of cash to make sure they get a re…

... You forget a big part I think: planning for your future. ... What I find remarkable is that in Thailand the people on the country-side generally seem to not think too much about the future. My Thai girlfriend sometimes tells me I should think less about the future, same like the Thai people do. She tells me sometimes I think too much about the future. The Thai people don't care too much about saving up for a pens…

There are lots of cultures (national and sub-national) where people don't think about the future.

Migration flows are always away from those cultures, and towards cultures where people do think about the future.

The thing is, everybody likes to dream about the care-free life, but nobody wants to experience the inevitable ultimate results of that: poverty, crime, underachievement (e.g. never accomplishing anything on a long time horizon), and powerlessness at the hands of people who planned.

Never forget the little red hen [1].

[1] http://www.enchantedlearning.com/stories/fairytale/littlered...

Re: The compelling case for working less

#82

Post by moccachino »

freddie_mercury wrote: post #65
amval wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Professional athletes sleep A LOT, way more than a normal person. The need for rest doesn't exclude them, not at all. Another difference between professional athletes and normal people is the likelihood of being on drugs that improve performance. You can do push ups every day, but it's useless.

> Professional athletes sleep A LOT, way more than a normal person. To elaborate on this... Lebron James and Roger Federer have both said they sleep 12 hours a day. Usain Bolt, Venus Williams, Maria Sharapova and Steve Nash sleep up to 10 hours per day. Most NBA players take naps every game day, sometimes for as long as 3 hours. That said, not all pro athletes sleep a ton. Tiger Woods said he only sleeps 5 hours a ni…

I can believe that. Not to belittle Tiger Woods or anything, but golf is not a sport in the same way that basketball or triathlon is a sport.

EDIT: This was poorly worded. Golf is a sport, but I don't know that a professional golfer is an athlete any more than a professional carpenter is an athlete. A professional basketball player is an athlete however.

Re: The compelling case for working less

#83

Post by amelius »

spyckie2 wrote: post #7

I'm convinced that our decision for how much effort to exert on work is not governed by the rational part of our brain. It's part primal - fear of insecurity and belonging to a social structure - part ego - accomplishment as confirmation of existence and your salary as a concrete number to compare favorably to others - and part culture and habit. I also think overwork is a byproduct of a globally connected society. H…

> I also think overwork is a byproduct of a globally connected society.

But what about the rise in real estate prices that happened just about when people were getting double income?

Overwork may be market-driven more than we think.

Re: The compelling case for working less

#84

Post by TuringNYC »

amelius wrote: post #83
spyckie2 wrote: post #7

I'm convinced that our decision for how much effort to exert on work is not governed by the rational part of our brain. It's part primal - fear of insecurity and belonging to a social structure - part ego - accomplishment as confirmation of existence and your salary as a concrete number to compare favorably to others - and part culture and habit. I also think overwork is a byproduct of a globally connected society. H…

> I also think overwork is a byproduct of a globally connected society. But what about the rise in real estate prices that happened just about when people were getting double income? Overwork may be market-driven more than we think.

Good Point - but double income is just part of it. The other parts are: - ZIRP and resulting housing price increases - overleverage on housing, driving up housing prices - mainstream acceptance of spending 50% of income on housing in many markets

But your point remains -- costs are out of line from our parents' generation. I cannot afford to buy my father's house even with 4x the salary he made. Salary-Housing multiples are insane and drives people to make poor work choices.

Re: The compelling case for working less

#85

Post by TuringNYC »

Banthum wrote: post #81
wsc981 wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

... You forget a big part I think: planning for your future. ... What I find remarkable is that in Thailand the people on the country-side generally seem to not think too much about the future. My Thai girlfriend sometimes tells me I should think less about the future, same like the Thai people do. She tells me sometimes I think too much about the future. The Thai people don't care too much about saving up for a pens…

There are lots of cultures (national and sub-national) where people don't think about the future. Migration flows are always away from those cultures, and towards cultures where people do think about the future. The thing is, everybody likes to dream about the care-free life, but nobody wants to experience the inevitable ultimate results of that: poverty, crime, underachievement (e.g. never accomplishing anything on…

>> but nobody wants to experience the inevitable ultimate results of that: poverty, crime, underachievement

I grew up in a diverse community in Brooklyn NY. There were marked differences in ambition amongst cultures. BUT Not all lack of ambition is negative as I personally witnessed. It may be negative at a society-level, but I witnessed very happy people. Parents who played soccer with their children daily. Parents who were always present at dinner. People who lived paycheck to paycheck, but were happy. Obviously, this is NY, so there are some safety nets for two-sigma cases (medicaid, housing support.)

Remember that ambition often comes with a cost (I worked 10+yrs on Wall Street, most high achievers I worked with rarely made it home for dinner with kids.) So many people I worked with were miserable.

Re: The compelling case for working less

#86

Post by spyckie2 »

ionstraub wrote: post #36
spyckie2 wrote: post #7

I'm convinced that our decision for how much effort to exert on work is not governed by the rational part of our brain. It's part primal - fear of insecurity and belonging to a social structure - part ego - accomplishment as confirmation of existence and your salary as a concrete number to compare favorably to others - and part culture and habit. I also think overwork is a byproduct of a globally connected society. H…

Does it work the other way, too? If I am made aware of someone who makes half of my salary for the 'same' work does it follow that I am happier? I don't find this very convincing. This would only seem to be the case where the amount of effort is tied to one's salary, but for hourly wages this is much less likely to be true. I also don't think it's a kind of built-in part of our brain structure; this feels like a very…

It's not being aware of someone else's situation - it's being aware that your own situation is not as good as it could be by comparing your situation with others out there.

In smaller societies, you have less people to compare to.

Re: The compelling case for working less

#87

Post by tugberkk »

kough wrote: post #12
spyckie2 wrote: post #7

I'm convinced that our decision for how much effort to exert on work is not governed by the rational part of our brain. It's part primal - fear of insecurity and belonging to a social structure - part ego - accomplishment as confirmation of existence and your salary as a concrete number to compare favorably to others - and part culture and habit. I also think overwork is a byproduct of a globally connected society. H…

> Humans are happy if they are relatively well off compared to what they know. This is super true. I've been congratulating myself all month on my new job, paying me BIG BUCKS, compared to my friends. Well, just found out an old friend of mine also found a new job, getting payed literally twice as much as me. Now I'm in a funk and it's irrational and stupid but I can't help but look at the same number in a totally di…

I'm sorry it is not about that topic in hand; but I just read 'BIG BUCKS' like Frank did in Scarface.

Re: The compelling case for working less

#88

Post by [deleted] »

TuringNYC wrote: post #84
amelius wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I also think overwork is a byproduct of a globally connected society. But what about the rise in real estate prices that happened just about when people were getting double income? Overwork may be market-driven more than we think.

Good Point - but double income is just part of it. The other parts are: - ZIRP and resulting housing price increases - overleverage on housing, driving up housing prices - mainstream acceptance of spending 50% of income on housing in many markets But your point remains -- costs are out of line from our parents' generation. I cannot afford to buy my father's house even with 4x the salary he made. Salary-Housing multip…

[deleted]

Re: The compelling case for working less

#89

Post by tugberkk »

Cthulhu_ wrote: post #64
wsc981 wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

... I know for a fact that I am better off than my parents ... I believe for me this is only true because of my job. Because I am a freelance software developer. If I'd have the same occupation as my father or mother, I am sure I would be much worse of today than they were. In The Netherlands taxation has definitely increased over the last decennia and wages haven't kept up with taxation and inflation for most jobs.

That's because over here once you reach retirement age (which has gone up from 65 to 67 or 68), you get a free pension from the government which is enough to last you the rest of your life - nowadays 20-30 years if you're lucky. I mean think about it. If you're anything like me, you've spent the first 24 or so years of your life in school (paid for in a large part by the government), and the last 30 years in retireme…

I know you said 'over here' but still, this is very different for different countries. Retirement age, the amount of money you get, etc.

Re: The compelling case for working less

#90

Post by mseebach »

Joe-Z wrote: post #45
donpdonp wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The most effective way to be unhappy - comparing yourself to others. Its far more satisfying to 'impress yourself', ie do better than you did before. I also like to remember that such comparisons are usually between your every day existance and their 'highlight reel'.

>Its far more satisfying to 'impress yourself' I find that this is something that sometimes sort of just happens to me, when I get aware of something I'm doing better now than, say, a year before. But, I never really consciously decide to do that, because then I find it just doesn't work. Like the cliché of standing in front of a mirror and saying to yourself "today is gonna be a good day" (Has that ever worked for a…

It works, but no, it won't turn night into day.

It's about making sure you take a moment to appreciate the good things you experience. It's about making an effort to not assume malice when there's a plausible positive or neutral explanation for someones behaviour. It's about the fact that if you smile at people and say good morning, they'll return the favour more often than if you frown and don't. It's about making peace with the things you can't change. It's about not dismissing this stuff as happy-clappy bullshit, but about giving you energy to address the things that actually matter, rather than just going around being angry at the world.

Post reply on HN