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As the 747 Begins Its Final Approach, a Pilot Takes a Flight Down Memory Lane

nytimes.com

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Re: As the 747 Begins Its Final Approach, a Pilot Takes a Flight Down Memory Lane

#81

Post by rconti »

It's truly amazing how cheap flying has gotten. I flew SEA-LHR for $408 roundtrip on a BA 747 in the cheap fuel days of the early 2000s.

I had never flown anything other than coach before, but I was lucky enough to find a cheap-with-miles business class seat to Europe this summer when I had a break between jobs. I got to fly UA58 SFO-FRA, top deck, mere months before United retires the 747. It was truly an experience; it feels like a private plane up there with only a couple dozen passengers (and more than enough lavatories, no lines!)

Re: As the 747 Begins Its Final Approach, a Pilot Takes a Flight Down Memory Lane

#82

Post by Stratoscope »

I still remember my first time.

I was a freshman at Caltech in 1969, and my friends and I were looking for something to do.

We could go to downtown LA for a Chinese dinner, or to Tijuana to see if we could get into Mexico. Didn't work the last time: the border guard said "Hair too long. Go back!"

Or maybe we could visit Pomona College to try to meet some of the young ladies there.

That seemed unlikely, so a trip to LAX it was. We'd heard that the first 747 was there.

We dropped some fake psilocybin and made our way to the airport. No one minded that we were dressed like hippies and acting a bit odd, they were happy to give us a tour of the 747. It was the most awesome airplane in the world!

Re: As the 747 Begins Its Final Approach, a Pilot Takes a Flight Down Memory Lane

#83

Post by kbenson »

rickdale wrote: post #71
avar wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The reason the FAA considered fuel tank inerting in the first place is because of a 1996 crash of a 747 that killed 230 people[1], and which is thought to have been avoided had the tanks been inert[2]. Other 747s were lost to the same issue, such as the ULF48 that crashed in 1976 killing all aboard[3]. To answer your question, no, the 747 is not "safe". No aircraft ever made is "safe". They will all crash and kill pe…

Theres a lot of speculation about TWA Flight 800 so thats pretty interesting. I some how stumbled on CPAN one night and the guy that wrote TWA 800 Crash Cover Up Conspiracy was giving a talk. Listening to the commenters afterwards, all were either engineers, pilots, or former air force and seemed to be in agreement with the author. Theres a TWA Flight 800 documentary as well. book: https://www.amazon.com/TWA-800-Cras…

> I some how stumbled on CPAN one night and the guy that wrote TWA 800 Crash Cover Up Conspiracy was giving a talk.

I think you mean C-SPAN. Unless the more nefarious of the Perl hackers have been working overtime. :)

Re: As the 747 Begins Its Final Approach, a Pilot Takes a Flight Down Memory Lane

#84

Post by tyingq »

dogma1138 wrote: post #80
tyingq wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes. It was a reaction to decreased flying after 9/11.

Some reaction considering I can fly to Crete from the UK right now for £19 each way that’s what $25? A price of a Pizza? If I don’t use the cheapest public transport I will pay more to get to the airport than I will for my flight tickets like 9 out of 10 times while flying from the UK to Europe on the cheapest fare these days.

That's obviously below cost and unsustainable. So, I'm not quite sure what we're supposed to gather from it.

It's probably more than £19 per passenger just for the fuel for a trip from the UK to Greece.

The average drop off in load factor, and resulting drop in prices after 9/11 is pretty well documented.

Re: As the 747 Begins Its Final Approach, a Pilot Takes a Flight Down Memory Lane

#85

Post by rapathak »

FabHK wrote: post #50
DaiPlusPlus wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The A380 isn't that popular either. The A380 only makes sense for really popular routes with a guaranteed high passenger count, whereas the 787 is more flexible because it has a similar range and takes less passengers but is almost as efficient per passenger-mile. And in 2016 there were fears Airbus might even cancel the A380 entirely: https://qz.com/782361/airbus-a380-airlines-are-abandoning-th...

The A380 was a bet on hub-and-spoke (Emirates is the biggest A380 operator, with all flights going to/from Dubai), while the B787 was a bet on point-to-point.

I agree. Also wanted to add a bit more color. When I did my MBA, we visited Emirates, and I heard a cool story. Apparently, international airports limited the landing slots that Emirates could use. Emirates then pushed Airbus to create the A380 so they could maximize passenger volume per landing slot. I'm sure this is only part of the story, but it's a pretty cool angle and a creative response to a business reality :)

I think high-efficiency twins and ETOPS (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ETOPS) standards certifying twins for transoceanic flights have contributed to the reduced demand for four-engine jets.

I will miss the B747 (and yes, I love airplanes).

Re: As the 747 Begins Its Final Approach, a Pilot Takes a Flight Down Memory Lane

#86

Post by himynamesdave »

gluecode wrote: post #13

Good interview of author in ‘Layovers’ podcast - http://www.layovers.to/podcast/060-nbo

I second this recommendation. Since listening I have heard all manner of things compared to the 747; yoga poses, describing something large, etc, as raised on the Podcast. It truly is an icon that translates across countries.

Re: As the 747 Begins Its Final Approach, a Pilot Takes a Flight Down Memory Lane

#87

Post by saryant »

hkmurakami wrote: post #42
et-al wrote: post #20

I once got to go up to the cockpit as a child, and remember climbing up that spiral staircase, awing at business (or first?) class, and entering the mindboggling cockpit of switches. Something about that second floor, with a spiral staircase, is magical. Recently, I found out that 777's manage to fit a crew rest area on top of the overhead luggage compartments. I haven't been fortunate enough to check out one of thos…

Just as an info drop, the 2nd floor is business class. First class is on the first floor, in front of the cockpit geometrically.

This isn't universally true. Lufthansa put their first class on some configurations on the top deck.

Re: As the 747 Begins Its Final Approach, a Pilot Takes a Flight Down Memory Lane

#88

Post by saryant »

ghaff wrote: post #9
0xFFFE wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes and it says "First-class meal service on a Pan Am 747 in the mid-70s" :)

Although traveling as a whole is more unpleasant in many ways, modern lie flat business class seating is actually quite a bit more comfortable for long haul travel than first class travel in the 747 originally was. (There was a first class lounge on the upper deck to be sure but that didn't last all that long.) Of course, coach is generally both tighter seating and generally has fewer empty seats than it once did.

Some airlines still have lounges. Mostly the Gulf carriers and I think Korean.

Re: As the 747 Begins Its Final Approach, a Pilot Takes a Flight Down Memory Lane

#89

Post by colmvp »

HarryHirsch wrote: post #33
analog31 wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wonder if the increase in turbulence was due to climate change.

Why is this being downvoted? Turbulence is caused by atmospheric instability, which is driven by the atmospheric temperature gradient, and that has increased in the last few decades thanks to global warming. https://www.wmo.int/pages/prog/arep/wwrp/new/wwosc/documents...

Also I think it should be encouraged to ask questions even if the true answer is the opposite of what was implied.

Re: As the 747 Begins Its Final Approach, a Pilot Takes a Flight Down Memory Lane

#90

Post by syassami »

Bromskloss wrote: post #70
jacquesm wrote: post #15

I used to fly these every two weeks, KL691 and KL692 the flights between Schiphol, Netherhands and Toronto, Canada. Then at some point they moved to 777's, and even though it was a nice plane and far more modern the 747 almost never had a turbulent ride whereas the 777 trips were far less comfortable, especially the red-eye return flight rarely was smooth enough that I could get some sleep. Retiring the 747 was one (…

> Also, this is the only time I've ever gone faster than 1,250 Km/h groundspeed in a regular jet Wow! How fast was the air flying? I.e., how close were you to supersonic airspeed?

Not OP, but here's a photo of a 167mph tailwind from HK -> SF https://imgur.com/a/PHCiD groundspeed was 751mph! Aboard a 747 too
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