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Psilocybin for treatment-resistant depression: fMRI-measured brain mechanisms [pdf]

nature.com

81–90 of 114 posts

Re: Psilocybin for treatment-resistant depression: fMRI-measured brain mechanisms [pdf]

#81
post #59

I still don't have the words to explain how, but I insist that psilocybin played a major role in the most successful period of my life. I am generally a highly skeptical person and remain a little frustrated that I can't articulate better such an impactful correlation.

Can you share any more details?

Re: Psilocybin for treatment-resistant depression: fMRI-measured brain mechanisms [pdf]

#82
post #10

Assuming that psilocybin is effective at treating depression, I find myself wondering whether actual conscious experience (that is, being high) is an essential part of its effectiveness or not. To put this another way, imagine someone takes whatever dose of psilocybin and then is rendered unconsciousness until the perceptual effects wear off. Will there be any difference in its effectiveness as a treatment for depres…

There's good evidence that the degree to which a person has a "mystical-type experience" is a good predictor of the benefit.

This is not surprising if you've taken it before. It's the experience itself that's liberating, much in the same way that other profoundly meaningful experiences in life depend on you actually "being there" to have any benefit.

Re: Psilocybin for treatment-resistant depression: fMRI-measured brain mechanisms [pdf]

#83
post #51

Is Psilocybin and/or Ayahuasaca and/or any other DMT source legal anywhere in the world? I would expect at least _some_ places make it legal, possibly have hundreds/thousands of years of experience that might be interesting to read alongside modern studies.

Not really, but there are a lot of “research chemicals” (= mostly unregulated drugs) that are serotonin receptor agonists like those. Some like 4-AcO-DMT and 1P-LSD seem to be almost identical to the classics.

Re: Psilocybin for treatment-resistant depression: fMRI-measured brain mechanisms [pdf]

#84
post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I believe the ketamine anti-depressant experiments use a different anesthetic to put subjects under in order to split the trip experience from the lower-level chemical effects, and still find benefits. If the trip itself is not necessary for ketamine, that makes it more plausible that it's not necessary for psilocybin etc. (Of course, this doesn't rule out the possibility that much of the benefit is coming from after…

Ketamine is used as a disassociative, though.

The categories aren't necessarily as clear cut as label -> effect, though, as in psychedelics (including psilocybin and its relatives) can be dissociating, and ketamine (and other dissociatives) can be psychedelic. That said, not because of particularly similar physiology; they certainly have different receptor targets.

Re: Psilocybin for treatment-resistant depression: fMRI-measured brain mechanisms [pdf]

#85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

well, in these studies, we are talking about really low doses. so no, "trip"

The present study focused on changes in brain function before versus after psilocybin in patients with treatment-resistant depression who received two doses of the drug (10 mg followed by 25 mg, one-week apart) as part of an open-label clinical trial. 25mg of pure psilocybin, the equivalent of 3.3 - 5 grams of dried mushrooms (depending on strength), is certainly enough for a trip.

It would be interesting to see if pure psilocybin (or prodrugs thereof) elicited as similarly-successful a response. I wonder to what extent other alkaloids, that are also present in mushrooms, affect the after-effects crucial to anti-depression.

Re: Psilocybin for treatment-resistant depression: fMRI-measured brain mechanisms [pdf]

#86
post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Being conscious during the trip is an essential part of the healing process. In fact, healing comes from the realization of what consciousness really is, that death is not the end, how my little self is just a stubborn part of a larger infinite consciousness that is the Universe thinking itself into existence, etc. You 'remember' what you really are and that's liberating. One theory that I subscribe to is that the dr…

You speak such obvious bullshit, and yet with such authority. You don't have evidence of any of the things you just said.

To be fair, these realizations are a commonly reported effect of psychoactive drugs. They are common, and the realizations are strong enough that the participants occasionally internalize those ideas.

Whether or not they're true objectively doesn't really matter if the participants believe them to be true.

If they believe those ideas to be true, and that belief is what causes the improvement (similar to how "finding religion" helps people), is that not enough?

Although I do agree that obviously just because they've internalized this experience, that doesn't make it objectively true.

Re: Psilocybin for treatment-resistant depression: fMRI-measured brain mechanisms [pdf]

#87

My girlfriend has treatment resistant depression. Most of her life doctors prescribed SSRI based drugs which didn't really work. A lot of money was also spent on psychiatrist for CBT. Based on a youtube videos and blogpost, read about 5HTP. I think 5htp supplements really works in cases where depression is genetic or the depression exists since childhood, where the cause of depression is not known. You can actually s…

Beware that 5HTP can cause mitral heart valve damage due to accumulated serotonin in the periphery. Combine with green tea extract (EGCG) to reduce your risk.

Re: Psilocybin for treatment-resistant depression: fMRI-measured brain mechanisms [pdf]

#88
post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Being conscious during the trip is an essential part of the healing process. In fact, healing comes from the realization of what consciousness really is, that death is not the end, how my little self is just a stubborn part of a larger infinite consciousness that is the Universe thinking itself into existence, etc. You 'remember' what you really are and that's liberating. One theory that I subscribe to is that the dr…

You speak such obvious bullshit, and yet with such authority. You don't have evidence of any of the things you just said.

Consider it a neurochemical hack that reliably induces certain perceptual shifts. Those shifts in turn can help stabilize various emotional disequilibria.

Does that make it more palatable?

Re: Psilocybin for treatment-resistant depression: fMRI-measured brain mechanisms [pdf]

#89
post #10

Assuming that psilocybin is effective at treating depression, I find myself wondering whether actual conscious experience (that is, being high) is an essential part of its effectiveness or not. To put this another way, imagine someone takes whatever dose of psilocybin and then is rendered unconsciousness until the perceptual effects wear off. Will there be any difference in its effectiveness as a treatment for depres…

There's good evidence that the degree to which a person has a "mystical-type experience" is a good predictor of the benefit. This is not surprising if you've taken it before. It's the experience itself that's liberating, much in the same way that other profoundly meaningful experiences in life depend on you actually "being there" to have any benefit.

Yep, this. See my reply to the poster for more info.

Re: Psilocybin for treatment-resistant depression: fMRI-measured brain mechanisms [pdf]

#90
post #88
post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You speak such obvious bullshit, and yet with such authority. You don't have evidence of any of the things you just said.

Consider it a neurochemical hack that reliably induces certain perceptual shifts. Those shifts in turn can help stabilize various emotional disequilibria. Does that make it more palatable?

The parent post was answering a difficult question with nothing other than their personal feeling about it. They have absolutely no evidence that it wouldn't have the same anti-depressant effects if someone was unconscious during their trip.
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