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Psilocybin for treatment-resistant depression: fMRI-measured brain mechanisms [pdf]

nature.com

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Re: Psilocybin for treatment-resistant depression: fMRI-measured brain mechanisms [pdf]

#71

Post by alpine_glass »

noahdesu wrote: post #66
beagle3 wrote: post #51

Is Psilocybin and/or Ayahuasaca and/or any other DMT source legal anywhere in the world? I would expect at least _some_ places make it legal, possibly have hundreds/thousands of years of experience that might be interesting to read alongside modern studies.

I believe that Psilocybin is legal in Jamaica, see https://www.mycomeditations.com/ . Since it would seem that large numbers of people visit South America to attend Ayahuasaca retreats, one may assume it is legal there. And some religious exemptions exist for both Ayahuasaca and Peyote in the U.S., but even this may be a bit fuzzy as this certainly isn't widely advertised. One may also purchase legally, in all but a…

I've attended a couple ayahuasca ceremonies in the US. The first was very a peaceful affair. The second was not. There was yelling, screaming, the energy was all over the place. At moments, it felt very chaotic, like the top was going to blow off the whole thing. The facilitators (shamans) did an amazing job of holding things together, but that doesn't mean that I didn't experience some very intense waves of paranoia while all of this was going on. We were in a somewhat secluded place, but maybe not secluded enough to have made the screams inaudible to our closest neighbor. It was a rough evening for everyone.

Re: Psilocybin for treatment-resistant depression: fMRI-measured brain mechanisms [pdf]

#72

Post by ouid »

delegate wrote: post #50
trgv wrote: post #10

Assuming that psilocybin is effective at treating depression, I find myself wondering whether actual conscious experience (that is, being high) is an essential part of its effectiveness or not. To put this another way, imagine someone takes whatever dose of psilocybin and then is rendered unconsciousness until the perceptual effects wear off. Will there be any difference in its effectiveness as a treatment for depres…

Being conscious during the trip is an essential part of the healing process. In fact, healing comes from the realization of what consciousness really is, that death is not the end, how my little self is just a stubborn part of a larger infinite consciousness that is the Universe thinking itself into existence, etc. You 'remember' what you really are and that's liberating. One theory that I subscribe to is that the dr…

You speak such obvious bullshit, and yet with such authority.

You don't have evidence of any of the things you just said.

Re: Psilocybin for treatment-resistant depression: fMRI-measured brain mechanisms [pdf]

#73

Post by Alex3917 »

mulvya wrote: post #34
CardenB wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

“Life time use” and “one time use triggering latent psychological conditions” are very different. Of course those who use over a long period of time aren’t showing adverse conditions. The ones who were triggered stayed away.

“Life time use” != "use over a long period of time" In epidemiological surveys, lifetime use == reports using at least once.

> In epidemiological surveys, lifetime use == reports using at least once.

Not necessarily. For smoking you need to smoke 100 cigarettes before qualifying for lifetime use.

Re: Psilocybin for treatment-resistant depression: fMRI-measured brain mechanisms [pdf]

#74

Post by Obi_Juan_Kenobi »

cJ0th wrote: post #47
anythingnonidin wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Please read 'A Prevalent Misconception About Sample Size, Statistical Significance, and Clinical Importance' http://www.joponline.org/doi/abs/10.1902/jop.1972.43.3.181?j...

Perhaps I am a bit dense but I still don't see why small sample sizes aren't problematic. If the data source we tap is valid (i.e.: it does give us the information that we really need) then we need a big sample size to gain precision. If, otoh, the data is not valid in the first place then neither a small nor a big sample size are helpful.

The issue is effect size. If the effect is large or easily detected, then you don't need many individuals to determine significant differences in the broader population.

What you seem to be referring to is whether or not a sample is representative of a population, which is indeed a critical factor in statistics, but not really related to the issue here.

Re: Psilocybin for treatment-resistant depression: fMRI-measured brain mechanisms [pdf]

#75

Post by bramen »

gwern wrote: post #62
trgv wrote: post #10

Assuming that psilocybin is effective at treating depression, I find myself wondering whether actual conscious experience (that is, being high) is an essential part of its effectiveness or not. To put this another way, imagine someone takes whatever dose of psilocybin and then is rendered unconsciousness until the perceptual effects wear off. Will there be any difference in its effectiveness as a treatment for depres…

I believe the ketamine anti-depressant experiments use a different anesthetic to put subjects under in order to split the trip experience from the lower-level chemical effects, and still find benefits. If the trip itself is not necessary for ketamine, that makes it more plausible that it's not necessary for psilocybin etc. (Of course, this doesn't rule out the possibility that much of the benefit is coming from after…

The experiments I've read about don't use any additional anaesthetic. They just give people a low but still noticeable dose intravenously. Some people reported mild and transient unpleasantness during the treatment due to the drug's effects.

Re: Psilocybin for treatment-resistant depression: fMRI-measured brain mechanisms [pdf]

#77

Post by dguaraglia »

amigoingtodie wrote: post #63
trgv wrote: post #10

Assuming that psilocybin is effective at treating depression, I find myself wondering whether actual conscious experience (that is, being high) is an essential part of its effectiveness or not. To put this another way, imagine someone takes whatever dose of psilocybin and then is rendered unconsciousness until the perceptual effects wear off. Will there be any difference in its effectiveness as a treatment for depres…

The introspection is crucial.

I guess what the parent comment was questioning was exactly this assertion. I tend to believe that the introspection is part of the reason these drugs help, but we won't really know for a fact until proper double blind experiments are done.

Re: Psilocybin for treatment-resistant depression: fMRI-measured brain mechanisms [pdf]

#78

Post by anythingnonidin »

beagle3 wrote: post #51

Is Psilocybin and/or Ayahuasaca and/or any other DMT source legal anywhere in the world? I would expect at least _some_ places make it legal, possibly have hundreds/thousands of years of experience that might be interesting to read alongside modern studies.

> It is our understanding that magic truffles are legal in the Netherlands, and in Jamaica magic mushrooms are either outright legal or the laws don’t seem to be enforced.

Magic truffles contain psilocybin, the same as magic mushrooms - they are the part that grows below ground.

https://tripsafe.org/shrooms/#12-psilocybin-is-legal-in-some...

The best seeming retreats are:

https://psychedelicsociety.org.uk/experience-weekends

and

https://www.mycomeditations.com/

Re: Psilocybin for treatment-resistant depression: fMRI-measured brain mechanisms [pdf]

#79

Post by anythingnonidin »

atom-morgan wrote: post #57
beagle3 wrote: post #51

Is Psilocybin and/or Ayahuasaca and/or any other DMT source legal anywhere in the world? I would expect at least _some_ places make it legal, possibly have hundreds/thousands of years of experience that might be interesting to read alongside modern studies.

I believe Psilocybin is legal enough (decriminalized?) to purchase in Amsterdam right? I remember watching a Vice piece on truffles.

See also: https://psychedelicsociety.org.uk/experience-weekends (Magic truffle experience retreat in Amsterdam)

Re: Psilocybin for treatment-resistant depression: fMRI-measured brain mechanisms [pdf]

#80

Post by anythingnonidin »

snvzz wrote: post #54
avodonosov wrote: post #53

Heroin, BTW, helps from cough. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heroin#History > From 1898 through to 1910, diamorphine was marketed under the trademark name Heroin as a non-addictive morphine substitute and cough suppressant.

>heroin >non-addictive I'm confused.

Somewhat interestingly/surprisingly, heroin is in the same ballpark of addictiveness as alcohol, as measured by the percent of people who use it 1+ times outside of a medical setting who end up becoming dependent.

Alcohol: 15-23%

Heroin: 23%

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21145178

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