ESPN Football Analyst Walks Away, Disturbed by Brain Trauma on Field • Hacker News Board

Re: ESPN Football Analyst Walks Away, Disturbed by Brain Trauma on Field

#81

Post by cpsempek » Thu, Aug 31, 2017, 6:19 PM UTC

TheMagicHorsey wrote: post #6

What about the sponsorship of daredevil sports like free climbing, wing suits, etc., by consumer companies like GoPro and Redbull. I feel that we are supporting these companies with our purchases, and then they in turn create social media spectacles by giving these people an incentive to do dangerous stunts. Recently a wingsuit daredevil died while livestreaming on Facebook, watched by his young daughter and wife. It…

I think this is a fair comment, and those that dismiss this comparison due to extreme sports be currently incomparable to NFL are missing the core issue. There are businesses profiting off of the risks others are taking for the entertainment of others. Yes, there are no wing suit programs in American high schools. But, the sponsors of these activities are trying hard and paying good money to have these videos and images displayed to as many high school students as possible. Tackle football should probably not be allowed in public schools, but there will be rec and private leagues so long as the NFL is successful as a business. There will probably not be free soloing or wing suit programs in high school, but there will be people risking there lives in part because some businesses were successful at marketing the sports and made money while doing so.

Certainly football is the most urgent issue at hand because it has it is so imbued in our culture, but I do not think people are watching videos of free soloists dropping to valley floors because that wouldn't be good for business.

Re: ESPN Football Analyst Walks Away, Disturbed by Brain Trauma on Field

#82

Post by athenot » Thu, Aug 31, 2017, 6:20 PM UTC

komali2 wrote: post #37

beachy wrote: post #17

Speaking as someone from a rugby-playing nation, where mostly players wear no protection except mouthguards and shin pads, American Football is spectacular but insane. Wearing protective helmets just ups the ante as players launch into each other with full force. In rugby, you don't tackle someone like that as you'll hurt yourself, and fail to stop the opponent. Rugby is a plenty violent sport, and has its own health…

This is how I feel about boxing vs MMA. Boxing gloves are huge and massively padded, meaning you take hit after hit after hit, bouncing your brain around like a ball. MMA gloves are only padded enough to maybe prevent you from breaking your knuckles, and maybe prevent your knuckles from breaking someone's jaw. If you threw the kind of punches people throw in boxing with MMA gloves on, you'd wreck your hands. That one…

Of course, that's for classic boxing. I train muay thai and you're also liable to get a shin/knee/ankle/elbow from your opponent, and there's zero padding there.

However, as someone else commented, there are some crucial differences with football:

- there's no injury unless it's an actual fight. Sparring is intentionally toned down, because the sport is not about the power but agility and speed. Those can be practiced with minimal danger (of course there are always exceptions and accidents);

- there's the benefit of transparency. Hits may be heavier but are fewer and much farther apart than the repeated hits in football which may go unnoticed.

Re: ESPN Football Analyst Walks Away, Disturbed by Brain Trauma on Field

#83

Post by cpsempek » Thu, Aug 31, 2017, 6:21 PM UTC

QuotedForTruth wrote: post #77

habosa wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The risk profile is entirely different. When you go jump off a cliff you're saying "there's an x% chance I will die right now" but there's no chance that you die slowly 20 years later after surviving the jump. So it's much more fair to ask the jumper to evaluate the risk. Playing football is a slow killer. After years and years of hits you may get serious brain damage. But there was no one particular moment, no singl…

Also even though Red Bull and other sponsors are making money off other's risk, they aren't actively trying to suppress and hide that info like it seems the NFL has been doing for years regarding concussion risk.

I agree with you point, but assume the NFL does admit fault and revise their position to be aligned with medical findings. Does watching the sport make is any more or less moral. I do not think so. You are right, the NFL is being dishonest and irresponsible, but viewing the sport is an act separated entirely from this fact.

Re: ESPN Football Analyst Walks Away, Disturbed by Brain Trauma on Field

#84

Post by ThrustVectoring » Thu, Aug 31, 2017, 6:21 PM UTC

Pxtl wrote: post #50

kpwags wrote: post #24

Good for him. I stopped following football after watching League of Denial on PBS. If I'm at the bar or something and it happens to be on, I might passively watch it, but I haven't sought it out since. I just can't support the NFL. I do feel torn though because I love hockey. I know they're dealing with similar controversies. My justification, however flimsy it might be is that I don't like the fighting (I might be i…

Hockey has the advantage that the sport could we reworked into something less violent. Hockey could survive a change to the rules that would reduce blows to the head. Football is such an intrinsically contact sport that I don't think a safer game would even be recognizable. Actually, that might be worse... If hockey turns out to have as bad a concussion problem, the leadership of the sport is likely even more culpabl…

I think the rules could get reworked to make it less dangerous for brain injury. Take a cue from Australian Rules Football: remove all padding and make high tackles that endanger the head illegal.

Re: ESPN Football Analyst Walks Away, Disturbed by Brain Trauma on Field

#85

Post by rconti » Thu, Aug 31, 2017, 6:23 PM UTC

maxxxxx wrote: post #43

ep103 wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think that's a fair comparison. I love motorcycling, and the Isle of Man TT is probably the craziest spectacle I watch every year. And every year, at least one person dies in the race. A lot of the mechanics and race shops that build bikes for that race talk about whether or not they're doing a good thing. And as dangerous and awful as the above is, I wouldn't change the TT for anything. But I also wouldn't w…

I can't watch the TT. The risks they are taking are just stupid. Go on a real race track where you can explore the limits without dying.

I just finished reading both of Guy Martin's books and really loved them. It's not just the TT, it's all of road racing, really. And the people who do it just aren't the kind of people who enjoy circuit racing.

Re: ESPN Football Analyst Walks Away, Disturbed by Brain Trauma on Field

#86

Post by gotthemwmds » Thu, Aug 31, 2017, 6:23 PM UTC

rm_-rf_slash wrote: post #66

Pxtl wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hockey has the advantage that the sport could we reworked into something less violent. Hockey could survive a change to the rules that would reduce blows to the head. Football is such an intrinsically contact sport that I don't think a safer game would even be recognizable. Actually, that might be worse... If hockey turns out to have as bad a concussion problem, the leadership of the sport is likely even more culpabl…

American football is also obsessively measured. The difference of a few yards at any point in time can be the difference of a game. Players are also obsessively measured for their performance, so every second counts towards a professional player's career - and their compensation. Players are highly incentivized to "give it their all", and that's how people end up getting injured or receive massive head trauma. Hockey…

s/difference of a few yards/difference of 1 yard/

signed, this totally not still upset Seahawks fan.

(re: 2015 Superbowl)

Re: ESPN Football Analyst Walks Away, Disturbed by Brain Trauma on Field

#87

Post by BearGoesChirp » Thu, Aug 31, 2017, 6:23 PM UTC

kpwags wrote: post #24

Good for him. I stopped following football after watching League of Denial on PBS. If I'm at the bar or something and it happens to be on, I might passively watch it, but I haven't sought it out since. I just can't support the NFL. I do feel torn though because I love hockey. I know they're dealing with similar controversies. My justification, however flimsy it might be is that I don't like the fighting (I might be i…

>I just can't support the NFL.

I'm not sure what the NFL does that's wrong. Their players get significant fame, are consenting adults, and get pay checks that many would trade even more of their health for. It is the college level, and especially the high school level, that I see the major problems at. When you have kids, or even people who aren't paid, risking their health it crosses a significant line. If college players were paid, and if playing below 18 (or even 16) was banned, it wouldn't be a big problem for me.

Edit: As someone else pointed out, the suppressing information is wrong. I wasn't considering that side of things.

Re: ESPN Football Analyst Walks Away, Disturbed by Brain Trauma on Field

#88

Post by Bud » Thu, Aug 31, 2017, 6:24 PM UTC

djKianoosh wrote: post #46

wavefunction wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also, I don't see too many 350lb corn-fed rugby players when I've watched compared to American football.

You're looking at the evolution of the sport because of the equipment. If the players didnt wear so much protective gear they wouldnt have to be so big and fast and powerful, as described a few comments above. That said they cant all of a sudden change the gear but they can evolve the rules to adapt.

This is incorrect. Football players actually wear substantially LESS padding now than in the 70s, 80s, and 90s. Just go look at the pads from those eras.

Players are bigger, faster, and more powerful because that makes them better players. Not because equipment has evolved. It's the training of the athletes that has evolved.

Re: ESPN Football Analyst Walks Away, Disturbed by Brain Trauma on Field

#89

Post by ThrustVectoring » Thu, Aug 31, 2017, 6:24 PM UTC

guiomie wrote: post #58

kpwags wrote: post #24

Good for him. I stopped following football after watching League of Denial on PBS. If I'm at the bar or something and it happens to be on, I might passively watch it, but I haven't sought it out since. I just can't support the NFL. I do feel torn though because I love hockey. I know they're dealing with similar controversies. My justification, however flimsy it might be is that I don't like the fighting (I might be i…

I'm on the same side as you about the fights. I'm just not a fan of the hypocrisy of letting people fight their anger away on national TV when someone doing the same in a public space would get arrested. I've played hockey, I get the whole aspect of being emotionally invested in the game, but I still don't think it's the right thing to do. Otherwise, I always thought the concussion aspect was much less worst in the N…

I've heard arguments that fights in hockey reduce the overall level of violence through changing incentives. Basically, it means that rough play will get you punched, so people are less willing to futz around on the ice.

Re: ESPN Football Analyst Walks Away, Disturbed by Brain Trauma on Field

#90

Post by rconti » Thu, Aug 31, 2017, 6:24 PM UTC

kpwags wrote: post #24

Good for him. I stopped following football after watching League of Denial on PBS. If I'm at the bar or something and it happens to be on, I might passively watch it, but I haven't sought it out since. I just can't support the NFL. I do feel torn though because I love hockey. I know they're dealing with similar controversies. My justification, however flimsy it might be is that I don't like the fighting (I might be i…

I'm not there yet, but may be some day. I turned to football because I just can't be bothered to follow the countless games in baseball anymore. Football is a great way to get a weekly sporting fix, a day or two a week, for a fraction of the year. But yeah, who can't shake their head at the "NFL's greatest hits volume 39" VHS sitting in the back of the cabinet.

Hopefully the game can change and adapt, I feel like the longer they drag their heels, the more likely it is to just completely collapse.