81–90 of 251 posts
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Progress relies strongly on people working together toward a common goal. If being "unreasonable" works for Linux, that's fine. But before others go trying to blindly emulate Linus, I'd suggest attempting to be reasonable first.
What people really don't seem to get is that Linus' cultural background is Finnish, and that Finns tend to be extremely outspoken and that they couldn't lie or polish their words if their life depended on it. http://www.karelia.fi/welcomingguide/the-finnish-way-of-life What to American sensibilities are grave insults to Linus is most likely just him speaking his mind without any filter in place, the way he was brough…
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He really talks in extremes. I see all his points but it doesn't make these things pure garbage.
Progress relies strongly on unreasonable people like Linus. Keep in mind that Github mutilated his baby so that's a pretty good reason to be upset.
Seriously: Everyone calling Github "garbage" should be forced to use sourceforge until they're willing to reconsider. Or Bugzilla. Or trac. Or whatever it is that ubuntu is using to make it impossible to ever find anything.
I'm fine with that. Github is 'too large to fail' already, adding the Linux kernel to the pile and forcing the kernel team into Github's workflow are two big negatives. It would be great for Github but bad for everybody else.
Seriously. Linux will likely outlive GH[1], and more importantly, it doesn't need GH. The current workflow works fine, and I hardly think any potential kernel hackers are choosing not to work on the kernel because it is email-driven. [1] Nothing against them that I don't have with any other commons that depends on corporate beneficence. But companies fail all the time; I can't think of a reason GH is immune.
I was hoping to see discussion of the merits of this proposal here on HN... not a regurgitation of Torvalds' positions and personal demeanor. What other projects use a monotree? does it work well? How do those projects coordinate changes across subordinate repositories?
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> politically correct avoid-the-language-of-conflict and make sure you dress up every insult as a compliment These are two extremes, and you can find a middle ground between them. In particular, here's a middle ground from someone objecting to Linus for willfully breaking userspace because he didn't think backwards-compatibility was important (a thing that he flames others to a crisp for), in a way that clearly expre…
I'm sure if you go and sift through the incredible volume of product that Linus has made over the years you will find a few more examples of absolutely shocking behavior. What's the last time someone did the opposite and searched for all the times when Linus was on his best behavior? Have you considered the parallels with the Richelieu quote: "If you give me six lines written by the hand of the most honest of men, I…
But I think it's a little weakened by the fact that Linus doesn't think that his poorest behavior was actually poor or indefensible; if pressed he says it's exactly what he should have done.
As a good counterexample involving a developer of another kernel, I once mentioned 'bcantrill making a personal attack on the Solaris development list in the midst of a technical argument in 1996, and he found the HN thread and replied to me with an unambiguous apology, despite it being almost twenty years later and him doubtless being a different person now: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9040602
Even the smallest sign that Linus genuinely thinks the behavior was suboptimal (not a "I want you people to stop complaining," which is basically what the Code of Conflict was) would go a long way towards changing everyone's perception of his behavior. But he's standing by the six lines.
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What people really don't seem to get is that Linus' cultural background is Finnish, and that Finns tend to be extremely outspoken and that they couldn't lie or polish their words if their life depended on it. http://www.karelia.fi/welcomingguide/the-finnish-way-of-life What to American sensibilities are grave insults to Linus is most likely just him speaking his mind without any filter in place, the way he was brough…
That's not a very good excuse for someone who's communicating with other people outside of his culture. He's had many many years to learn that his style of communication doesn't mesh with most people.
Well, considering that Linux is pretty much powering the world it seems to me that his style of communication tends to mesh perfectly well with the people that he's working with and that they actually get the job done. As opposed to a whole pile of floundering competitors which are of course much better from a technical perspective and tend to have more polite maintainers.
The man gets the job done, in a similar way that an army general will get the job done. Whether he would be equally effective if he would polish his words on those occasions where people get offended is something we probably will not know.
If you're easily offended don't contribute to the Linux kernel.
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Running on BSD and Mercurial? Wouldn't have made a lick of difference for most of us.
And yet, so many small and large organizations choose to use Linux and git over BSD and Mercurial, 'despite' Linus' management style.
Technology choices are largely driven by network effects, and small variances in the seeds of the networks can ultimately dictate which networks win and which ones lose.
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I'm sure if you go and sift through the incredible volume of product that Linus has made over the years you will find a few more examples of absolutely shocking behavior. What's the last time someone did the opposite and searched for all the times when Linus was on his best behavior? Have you considered the parallels with the Richelieu quote: "If you give me six lines written by the hand of the most honest of men, I…
That's a fair point, and I am really curious to see all the times he was on his best behavior now. :) But I think it's a little weakened by the fact that Linus doesn't think that his poorest behavior was actually poor or indefensible; if pressed he says it's exactly what he should have done. As a good counterexample involving a developer of another kernel, I once mentioned 'bcantrill making a personal attack on the S…
I can't really see the obsession that everyone has with centralised and closed services like github. We need to start moving away from them, not move more projects to them. Mailing lists and NNTP make decentralisation quite easy while being open standards and without having the need to have any account in any centralised service, why drop all these features away?