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A media company in Mumbai is giving women a day off during their periods

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Re: A media company in Mumbai is giving women a day off during their periods

#81

Post by chii »

philipov wrote: post #8
fredley wrote: post #2

Stuff like this, while done with good intentions, can threaten to entrench discrimination by having different sets of rules and expectations for people based on their gender. A better solution would be to give 12 extra holiday days per year to everyone, but make it known that it's acceptable to take them under those circumstances.

But doing that doesn't get the same PR credit for fighting sexism, and it costs a whole lot more money, so "what's the point?"

More people needs to understand that fighting sexism isn't to give females a "better"deal or consideration. It's to ensure there's no discernable difference in treatment. It could be taken to far with unisex toilets, but i don't affirmative action is going to help fight sexism at all.

Re: A media company in Mumbai is giving women a day off during their periods

#82

Post by croon »

dontflamemebro wrote: post #57
croon wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If your vacation days and sick days are combined into a limited pool which you can use up I completely agree with you, but I think that concept is the real problem. In Sweden for example, vacation days and sick days are separate, and up to a week, the employer is required to pay you during sick leave, and after that social security (equivalent) kicks in. This obviously doesn't use up your vacation days (where employe…

Having a period does not require a visit to the doctor. Should I have brought in the bloody adult diapers as documentation? Ideally I would have used "vacation days" for this if they were separate at my workplace, but they often require requesting the time off ahead of time, which is not really possible when you have an unexpected period from hell and you have no idea how long it will last.

> Having a period does not require a visit to the doctor. Should I have brought in the bloody adult diapers as documentation?

I know, neither does being out cold with the flu for a week, but the person footing the bill is still reasonably entitled to some form of verification (regardless if this is the right approach in terms of good will or not) that you were unable to work (at least on location). Don't you agree?

I don't think your doctor would need verification for that note, diapers or otherwise. I assume it could be handled by phone.

Re: A media company in Mumbai is giving women a day off during their periods

#83

Post by croon »

ygra wrote: post #63
croon wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If your vacation days and sick days are combined into a limited pool which you can use up I completely agree with you, but I think that concept is the real problem. In Sweden for example, vacation days and sick days are separate, and up to a week, the employer is required to pay you during sick leave, and after that social security (equivalent) kicks in. This obviously doesn't use up your vacation days (where employe…

In Germany at least you get three instances of a sick note: - One for your health insurance, which lists the diagnosis, duration, etc. - One for your employer which only gives the days you are unable to work - One for yourself with all the info as well This neatly solves the problem that you have to tell your employer anything that only concerns your doctor (they're not allowed to ask either). And my work contract st…

That does seem like a good system.

> And my work contract states that I can take leave for any personal reason if needed for up to two days, but after that a doctor's note is required.

That might be the case in Sweden as well, I don't remember. Since I started contracting I've only been my own employer, and I'm the best boss I've ever had, so it hasn't been a problem.

Re: A media company in Mumbai is giving women a day off during their periods

#84

Post by DropbearRob »

chii wrote: post #80
DropbearRob wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Im not saying its humane, or just, or right. Its business. The reason you point out is exactly what has happened in the past. In fact my mum used to work for a company that straight up fired any female staff in the secretary pool which got married to protect themselves from exactly the losses you speak of. Luckily we don't live in that world anymore (40 years ago). And we are working to reduce the dis-incentives of h…

> Im not saying its humane, or just, or right. Its business. I'm sure the same was said about slavery too. Society had some tolerance for unethical behaviour, but you'd want to hope that it improves overtime. One such way is when a business does the uneconomical thing, but gains good will and recognition.

wow... slavery? really? strawman much?

There is a HUGE difference between forcing someone to work for no money, and expecting an equality of pay and sick leave based on a persons sex.

My whole argument was that in small business where the financial bottom line is tight and every saving makes the difference between success and failure, by introducing discrimination such as this initiative, it actually dis-incentivises the hiring of women. HENCE, in order to establish a balanced workplace it is in your best interests to NOT introduce factors which make hiring men more cost effective. If you believe in equality, then the only solution is "whats good for one is good for all". otherwise you create a situation where you end up incentivising the opposite objective to what you were trying to achieve.

Re: A media company in Mumbai is giving women a day off during their periods

#85

Post by kingofpandora »

fredley wrote: post #2

Stuff like this, while done with good intentions, can threaten to entrench discrimination by having different sets of rules and expectations for people based on their gender. A better solution would be to give 12 extra holiday days per year to everyone, but make it known that it's acceptable to take them under those circumstances.

Reminds me of a company in a country I won't name that celebrated International Women's Day by giving each female employee a bouquet of flowers.

There may have been good intentions ...

Re: A media company in Mumbai is giving women a day off during their periods

#86

Post by falcolas »

DropbearRob wrote: post #84
chii wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Im not saying its humane, or just, or right. Its business. I'm sure the same was said about slavery too. Society had some tolerance for unethical behaviour, but you'd want to hope that it improves overtime. One such way is when a business does the uneconomical thing, but gains good will and recognition.

wow... slavery? really? strawman much? There is a HUGE difference between forcing someone to work for no money, and expecting an equality of pay and sick leave based on a persons sex. My whole argument was that in small business where the financial bottom line is tight and every saving makes the difference between success and failure, by introducing discrimination such as this initiative, it actually dis-incentivises…

Slavery isn't, to be fair, such a huge leap when the comment being responded to disregards fairness and morals in favor of "Its business".

Many things are done in the name of business which have no place in a moral society - some forms of slavery included. How many people are in a form of indentured servitude these days? Or in so much debt from the cost of living as to make no real difference?

Re: A media company in Mumbai is giving women a day off during their periods

#87

Post by dgudkov »

In an ideal world where employer and employee trust each other it would be a great option for women who need it (not all women do) and a right thing to do. In the real world, where the level of trust is low, and sexism (both male and female) has become an extremely toxic topic, I don't see how this can work. Maybe only in small family-type companies.

Re: A media company in Mumbai is giving women a day off during their periods

#88

Post by pc86 »

nickonline wrote: post #78
pc86 wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know where this idea that Americans don't take their vacation time came from, but it is 100% wrong in my opinion. I have coworkers that have had negative PTO balances for months. Whether with PTO or holidays, I try to get at least one 3-4 day weekend each month. I take least one 2-week vacation every year. Everyone I've worked with over the past decade, with rare exception, is the same. A friend of mine is a…

You would be hugely outside the norm in a country where most people get 0-5 days off a year of leave (including sick time)

Most professional employees in the US get a total of 26.5 or more days off a year, including holidays and sick leave.[0] Obviously the number goes up as tenure at the same firm increases. Blue collar workers are also well above 5 days a year total. The rub is probably in what types of businesses are excluded from this table (almost nobody in the restaurant business gets any PTO, for example).

But implying that the average yearly leave is 0-5 days including sick time is just flat out wrong.

[0] https://www.bls.gov/news.release/ebs.t05.htm

Re: A media company in Mumbai is giving women a day off during their periods

#89

Post by LunaSea »

b3lvedere wrote: post #71
ErikVandeWater wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your suggestion is different rules for different genders?

There is no shame in that, given that it is well defined. For instance. In almost all sports you have a male and a female devision. Just based on pure strength or something. Call it what you want. There ARE differences in various humans. Some are male, some are female, some have kids, some don't, some have two legs, some don't, etc. Want to give them all equal chances? Listen to what they can and experience and get t…

So based on these differences, women should thus work more hours then men since they have less strength in manual work.

Re: A media company in Mumbai is giving women a day off during their periods

#90

Post by sctb »

nickonline wrote: post #20

This viewpoint is amazing. It's so brilliantly obvious that it's an American saying this statement due to the horrible laws that are so far in favour of the business it's not funny. In Australia (for example) where I am, annually we have 20 days of leave and 10 sick days by law. Those sick days are available for use for any personal issue be it period pain or mental health. I understand in Europe the leave schedules…

We detached this subthread from https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14743562 and marked it off-topic.
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