A media company in Mumbai is giving women a day off during their periods • Hacker News Board

Re: A media company in Mumbai is giving women a day off during their periods

#51

Post by croon » Tue, Jul 11, 2017, 1:25 PM UTC

dontflamemebro wrote: post #39

fredley wrote: post #2

Stuff like this, while done with good intentions, can threaten to entrench discrimination by having different sets of rules and expectations for people based on their gender. A better solution would be to give 12 extra holiday days per year to everyone, but make it known that it's acceptable to take them under those circumstances.

Throwaway because no one wants to hear about periods. I am a woman and one time my body decided to have an extremely heavy and painful flow for about a week straight. I had been sick with a cold immediately before that, so I had already let my employer know that I was not feeling well and would be taking some days off, and I did not feel the need to tell my employer every little detail about what was going on. Every…

If your vacation days and sick days are combined into a limited pool which you can use up I completely agree with you, but I think that concept is the real problem.

In Sweden for example, vacation days and sick days are separate, and up to a week, the employer is required to pay you during sick leave, and after that social security (equivalent) kicks in. This obviously doesn't use up your vacation days (where employers have no business in knowing what you're up to), but as for sick days it's not unreasonable to (have the option to) ask for validation for your absence.

I agree that employers (should) have no authority to know anything that's between you and your doctor, but I think it's also reasonable to have some verification (a note from doctor not specifying what the ailment is?) that you weren't just taking time off on the employers dime.

Re: A media company in Mumbai is giving women a day off during their periods

#52

Post by quirkot » Tue, Jul 11, 2017, 1:25 PM UTC

dontflamemebro wrote: post #39

fredley wrote: post #2

Stuff like this, while done with good intentions, can threaten to entrench discrimination by having different sets of rules and expectations for people based on their gender. A better solution would be to give 12 extra holiday days per year to everyone, but make it known that it's acceptable to take them under those circumstances.

Throwaway because no one wants to hear about periods. I am a woman and one time my body decided to have an extremely heavy and painful flow for about a week straight. I had been sick with a cold immediately before that, so I had already let my employer know that I was not feeling well and would be taking some days off, and I did not feel the need to tell my employer every little detail about what was going on. Every…

Your employer is not entitled to your health information, but they are entitled to proof that something legit is happening. A doctor's note would say something like "dontflamemebro will require medical leave for 4-8 days. Love, Doc Brown"

Re: A media company in Mumbai is giving women a day off during their periods

#53

Post by athenot » Tue, Jul 11, 2017, 1:27 PM UTC

pc86 wrote: post #49

dontflamemebro wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Throwaway because no one wants to hear about periods. I am a woman and one time my body decided to have an extremely heavy and painful flow for about a week straight. I had been sick with a cold immediately before that, so I had already let my employer know that I was not feeling well and would be taking some days off, and I did not feel the need to tell my employer every little detail about what was going on. Every…

It's perfectly reasonable for a manager to request a doctor's note if you say "I have a cold and will not be in for a few days" and then you are out for 6+.

Yet it's counter-productive.

According to [1], people are contagious for about one week, starting from one day before they feel any symptoms. It is actually more productive to send the sick people home (or let them work at least part-time from home) to prevent others from getting sick and also having to take time off.

I've been fortunate enough to work in environments where this was acknowledged and practiced, but I'm always dismayed when hearing from friends/relatives who are required to put in their "time of presence" and get half of their coworkers sick.

[Edit] Last point: for the common cold (virus), there's no need for a doctor visit, yet you still need rest and symptom control with OTC meds.

[1] http://www.webmd.com/cold-and-flu/how-long-flu-contagious

Re: A media company in Mumbai is giving women a day off during their periods

#54

Post by robertlagrant » Tue, Jul 11, 2017, 1:28 PM UTC

BearGoesChirp wrote: post #46

robertlagrant wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maternity leave in theory has the same disadvantage, as generally women take this more than paternity leave (though I think that's changing) - it can be combatted by public denigration of companies that consider men to be preferable hires on the basis of lower risk of disruption and lower costs. Thus I don't think it'd be a problem.

>it can be combatted by public denigration of companies that consider men to be preferable hires on the basis of lower risk of disruption and lower costs. Was this said in sarcasm? I feel like it was, but I'm not a good judge of when sarcasm is used.

Which bit sounds sarcastic?

Re: A media company in Mumbai is giving women a day off during their periods

#55

Post by amyjess » Tue, Jul 11, 2017, 1:29 PM UTC

bigmanwalter wrote: post #16

fredley wrote: post #2

Stuff like this, while done with good intentions, can threaten to entrench discrimination by having different sets of rules and expectations for people based on their gender. A better solution would be to give 12 extra holiday days per year to everyone, but make it known that it's acceptable to take them under those circumstances.

Men don't get a day of pain and cramps each month so I don't see why we should get the day off. Periods aren't fun, and I don't think men deserve a day at the golf course in exchange.

Because if you don't, it gives companies a reason to not hire women.

Employer: "Hmm... we have two candidates for the job, both equally qualified, but we'll have to give 12 extra days off a year to one of them but not the other. Which one do we hire?"

Re: A media company in Mumbai is giving women a day off during their periods

#56

Post by lemondrops » Tue, Jul 11, 2017, 1:29 PM UTC

Swizec wrote: post #3

Question for the women ou there: Do you perceive this as a magnificent idea or as implying women have a periodic weakness that impacts their performance every month? Do you think this sort of policy feeds into wage gap stuff, or fights against it? As a reasonably feminist guy, I can't decide how to feel about this. It seems like it's implying women can't work one day of every month, and also seems like a great idea b…

Not sure how to feel about this; but I also don't consider myself a women who suffers heavily under period symptoms.

If I feel bad enough that I can't do my work properly, I would simply leave, periods or not. (Normal paid sick leave - this is relatively easy in my country.) It has only happened once since I started working full time five years ago, that I was in so much pain from periods that I had to leave work. (And that was after taking two painkillers and even those didn't help.)

I certainly think a policy like this would feed into wage gap issues - it would definitely be unfair to pay the same amount of money to two employees, when one of them potentially works 12 days more in a year.

It sounds plausible that it would work better in a female dominated company -- I would rather suck up the pain than deal with stupid remarks of my male colleagues because they know I'm on my periods...

In general, I think women grow up with having to deal with their periods and the symptoms since childhood/teenage years, so it's just a normal part of life for us. Sure, some women have it way worse that others, but I'd say 90% can cope with it without problems and don't need extra holidays.

Though I do like the idea of giving those women in bad pain the opportunity to work from home! It doesn't necessarily help with the symptoms, but at least one can sit somewhere comfortable in PJs with a warm water bottle, which makes it a lot more bearable IMO.

Re: A media company in Mumbai is giving women a day off during their periods

#57

Post by dontflamemebro » Tue, Jul 11, 2017, 1:29 PM UTC

croon wrote: post #51

dontflamemebro wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Throwaway because no one wants to hear about periods. I am a woman and one time my body decided to have an extremely heavy and painful flow for about a week straight. I had been sick with a cold immediately before that, so I had already let my employer know that I was not feeling well and would be taking some days off, and I did not feel the need to tell my employer every little detail about what was going on. Every…

If your vacation days and sick days are combined into a limited pool which you can use up I completely agree with you, but I think that concept is the real problem. In Sweden for example, vacation days and sick days are separate, and up to a week, the employer is required to pay you during sick leave, and after that social security (equivalent) kicks in. This obviously doesn't use up your vacation days (where employe…

Having a period does not require a visit to the doctor. Should I have brought in the bloody adult diapers as documentation?

Ideally I would have used "vacation days" for this if they were separate at my workplace, but they often require requesting the time off ahead of time, which is not really possible when you have an unexpected period from hell and you have no idea how long it will last.

Re: A media company in Mumbai is giving women a day off during their periods

#58

Post by falcolas » Tue, Jul 11, 2017, 1:29 PM UTC

DropbearRob wrote: post #48

fredley wrote: post #2

Stuff like this, while done with good intentions, can threaten to entrench discrimination by having different sets of rules and expectations for people based on their gender. A better solution would be to give 12 extra holiday days per year to everyone, but make it known that it's acceptable to take them under those circumstances.

I totally get your point, and from a capitalist perspective the solution of the media company in the article dis-incentivises hiring women as a dollar per hour of work metric instantly makes hiring a woman less cost effective. I've seen comments like men don't have the day of pain, so don't "need the holiday" but these people obviously don't own a business or pay other peoples wages. When you are a small business you…

The problem with this logic is that you would never hire a woman, for fear that they could get pregnant and become "unreliable" for 9 months, and completely unavailable for the duration of their maternity leave (while having to keep their job position unfilled).

It's far better to apply some humanity to the equation and just give everyone those extra 12 days off (and (mat|pat)ernity leave), so you're not tempted to discriminate off the "productivity loss".

Re: A media company in Mumbai is giving women a day off during their periods

#59

Post by dontflamemebro » Tue, Jul 11, 2017, 1:30 PM UTC

quirkot wrote: post #52

dontflamemebro wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Throwaway because no one wants to hear about periods. I am a woman and one time my body decided to have an extremely heavy and painful flow for about a week straight. I had been sick with a cold immediately before that, so I had already let my employer know that I was not feeling well and would be taking some days off, and I did not feel the need to tell my employer every little detail about what was going on. Every…

Your employer is not entitled to your health information, but they are entitled to proof that something legit is happening. A doctor's note would say something like "dontflamemebro will require medical leave for 4-8 days. Love, Doc Brown"

I was in so much pain that I could not move. Over the counter pain medicine did not touch it. Getting out of the house to go to an unnecessary doctor's visit was out of the question.

Re: A media company in Mumbai is giving women a day off during their periods

#60

Post by dontflamemebro » Tue, Jul 11, 2017, 1:31 PM UTC

pc86 wrote: post #49

dontflamemebro wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Throwaway because no one wants to hear about periods. I am a woman and one time my body decided to have an extremely heavy and painful flow for about a week straight. I had been sick with a cold immediately before that, so I had already let my employer know that I was not feeling well and would be taking some days off, and I did not feel the need to tell my employer every little detail about what was going on. Every…

It's perfectly reasonable for a manager to request a doctor's note if you say "I have a cold and will not be in for a few days" and then you are out for 6+.

I did not specify that I had a cold to my employer. The entire time I said I did not feel well but did not provide details.