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Others are speaking up about discrimination at Tesla

theguardian.com

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Re: Others are speaking up about discrimination at Tesla

#81

Post by caseydurfee »

0xbear wrote: post #43
drewrv wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> In any company of tens of thousands of people, you can always find a few people who are mistreated It's how the company handles these situations that matters. If the guy who harassed Susan Fowler was fired instead of promoted, Kalanick would probably still have his job.

Sure, but to say that Tesla sanctions systematic discrimination and harassment of women based on just one accusation and "anonymous" sources is a classic liberal playbook move.

Hearing "Alinksy playbook" in 2017 is like hearing "Who Let the Dogs Out" in 2017. https://www.villagevoice.com/2012/01/29/ally-ally-alinsky-ri...

If you wish to be taken seriously by intelligent adults, maybe try to find a way to make your point that isn't just a word salad comprised of decade-old shibboleths.

Re: Others are speaking up about discrimination at Tesla

#82

Post by Jach »

perfectstorm wrote: post #66
bjl wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Having a severe narcissist as CEO is hardly 'meaningless'.

we don't even know if it was Elon's idea.

Even if it was, I think if you're going to work for Elon as "just a regular job" you're not going to last very long. Embrace the personality cult while it lasts and work on something incredible with all of your focus.

Re: Others are speaking up about discrimination at Tesla

#83

Post by araglia »

gdulli wrote: post #63
araglia wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You mean perpetually then? This is not a problem that will ever go away in general. So people get tired of it. I could share some stories my mom told me about her workplace experiences from the 70s to the 90s. They're much more disturbing than being passed over for promotion. So perhaps things have gotten better.

> So perhaps things have gotten better. Yes, because of the actions and attitudes of people who give the subject its due attention, not the people who write it off as fatiguing.

No, it's the fatigue and lack of attention that improves it. That is to say, the course of action that the actual affected individual takes. They stop taking the shit and leave. If this happens enough, then shitty employers go out of business.

Re: Others are speaking up about discrimination at Tesla

#84

Post by [deleted] »

abiox wrote: post #72
nostrademons wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oftentimes when an evolutionary process produces a "less fit" candidate, it's because our intuitive notions of what fitness is are wrong. A bunch of examples from business: Betamax vs. VHS is often cited as an example of the market rewarding an inferior technical solution. Betamax's picture quality was better, but the key VHS feature was you could fit a 90-100 minute feature film on a single tape (Betamax tapes were…

interesting; so (perhaps) an 'underperformer' can be 'more fit' due to other factors.

[deleted]

Re: Others are speaking up about discrimination at Tesla

#85

Post by jimbokun »

daenz wrote: post #12

https://www.theverge.com/2017/6/1/15724520/tesla-fires-femal... >Tesla fired the female engineer who earlier this year publicly made claims about “unwanted and pervasive harassment” at the electric carmaker, according to The Guardian. Tesla says it was justified in firing the engineer, AJ Vandermeyden, because her accusations were false, but Vandermeyden’s lawyers allege that it amounts to retaliation. I don't mean t…

"cannot be fired"

Nope, she was fired already.

Re: Others are speaking up about discrimination at Tesla

#86

Post by calafrax »

thebiglebrewski wrote: post #61

I am here to say (as a Tesla owner), that I truly hope this kind of behavior is not being tolerated by Tesla. I would hope Elon Musk or someone high up at the company investigates these claims. If they are baseless, they are baseless, but they are still worth investigating and possibly taking disciplinary and work process steps to fix them. In regards to Vandenmeyer's story: from what I've read...I'm not sure I think…

I think Tesla's and Elon Musk's response of publicly attacking this woman almost certainly indicates that they are at fault.

If this woman's claims were false they would do best to keep quiet and wait for the legal process. They have a huge advantage with both the money to pay lawyers and many fawning media outlets willing to support them so if they were in the right they would be guaranteed to win if they just waited it out.

Going on the offensive is dangerous because it makes them look bad and draws more attention to the story.

Attacking this woman would be very stupid unless they are actually in the wrong, in which case it makes perfect sense as an attempt to intimidate other employees into not speaking out.

Re: Others are speaking up about discrimination at Tesla

#88

Post by daenz »

jimbokun wrote: post #85
daenz wrote: post #12

https://www.theverge.com/2017/6/1/15724520/tesla-fires-femal... >Tesla fired the female engineer who earlier this year publicly made claims about “unwanted and pervasive harassment” at the electric carmaker, according to The Guardian. Tesla says it was justified in firing the engineer, AJ Vandermeyden, because her accusations were false, but Vandermeyden’s lawyers allege that it amounts to retaliation. I don't mean t…

"cannot be fired" Nope, she was fired already.

And it's being fought as wrongful termination, which could have been avoided if the employer chose not to fire her.

Re: Others are speaking up about discrimination at Tesla

#89

Post by bsder »

calafrax wrote: post #86
thebiglebrewski wrote: post #61

I am here to say (as a Tesla owner), that I truly hope this kind of behavior is not being tolerated by Tesla. I would hope Elon Musk or someone high up at the company investigates these claims. If they are baseless, they are baseless, but they are still worth investigating and possibly taking disciplinary and work process steps to fix them. In regards to Vandenmeyer's story: from what I've read...I'm not sure I think…

I think Tesla's and Elon Musk's response of publicly attacking this woman almost certainly indicates that they are at fault. If this woman's claims were false they would do best to keep quiet and wait for the legal process. They have a huge advantage with both the money to pay lawyers and many fawning media outlets willing to support them so if they were in the right they would be guaranteed to win if they just waite…

> Attacking this woman would be very stupid unless they are actually in the wrong

Or unless they think they are very right. I find them opening their mouth at all to be quite surprising. I find the firing with a reason given even MORE surprising.

This is either complete and total incompetence (not at all impossible), or the Tesla lawyers must think they are on amazingly solid ground.

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