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“Let her speak please”

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Re: “Let her speak please”

#81
post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You've been able to watch enough of the video to discern that the moderator was an equal-opportunity-interruptor? Honest question, I just skimmed the video, and given that there were 5 men of similar age/race, I don't think even if I were in the audience I'd have a clear tally on how much each man got to speak, versus how easy it is to track how much/little opportunity the woman had. But the OP does assert that the m…

I didn't take notes and don't have a ton of time, but here are some examples: 14:30 - moderator assumes another panelist's position 'surely you're going to take issue...' 22:30 - moderator explains another panelist's research for him, for nearly 2 full minutes. Attempts to talk over panelist when panelist starts to speak, but notably the panelist consciously speaks louder and repetitively to cut off the moderator. 26…

In none of these did the moderator ignore repeated attempts of the panelist to speak though.

Re: “Let her speak please”

#82
post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> mansplaining Please avoid using derogative terms, suggesting that a whole category (men in this case) have a certain behaviour. That's sexism, too.

I'm a man and I think this term is fine. You don't speak for all men.

Of course I don't. Still it's sad to see that you are OK with sexist behaviour.

Re: “Let her speak please”

#83
post #79

I dipped in an out of the video hunting for this "event" a bit harder to find than I expected. Initially I didn't realise who the moderator was, and eventually I realised this guy kept adding dumbed down clarifications to everything, unnecessarily annotating things, almost every time talking over someone who was in the middle of trying to make a point or explain something... Maybe deep inside he did have a sexist att…

1:07:41 is the "end" of the event. Starting around the 1 hr mark is probably good if you've got 8 minutes to see the lead-up.

(This is for others "hunting" like you and I did.)

Re: “Let her speak please”

#84
post #63

Veronika Hubeny(the physicist who got interrupted) replied to the incident, https://www.facebook.com/marilee.talkington/posts/1015505138... Very humble woman.

>You may be amazed to hear it, but during this panel session I genuinely did not feel affronted or discriminated by the moderator’s behavior. It seemed more amusing to see him try posing a question in a way that at the same time tried answering it. It’s true that this made the question a bit of a moving target for me (and therefore harder to address coherently), but I don’t a-priori assume that the incident was rooted in sexism. Maybe I’m too naive, but I simply gave him the benefit of doubt that he was so excited by the newly-learned idea of the duality that he couldn’t resist, and that the same might have occurred had the panelist been a male instead of me. So it didn’t bother me.

...

> Please understand that I’m not trying to say that sexism in science is a myth. It is real and we should all aspire to diminish it. But I am trying to say that it need not pose as much of an impediment as you might fear and that you might be in more control over its influence yourself than you might think. Just as you put up with long lines to see a great show, or with sore feet or mosquitos to have a great hike etc., the annoyance of otherwise abominable behavior diminishes in the larger perspective of doing something you really enjoy.

Re: “Let her speak please”

#85
post #63

Veronika Hubeny(the physicist who got interrupted) replied to the incident, https://www.facebook.com/marilee.talkington/posts/1015505138... Very humble woman.

Could you possibly copy the comment here? I tried to find it in Facebook's "awesome" comment paging system, but I don't know how far through the 9000 comments I have to scroll back. (I assume the URL you posted is supposed to jump me to it, but it doesn't work for non-facebook users like me.)

ETA: From the Observer article: http://observer.com/2017/06/sexism-science-facebook-mansplai...

“I applaud your heroism in standing up for what you believe in!” she wrote. “I know well the shaky feeling and subsequent exhilarated contentment in the knowledge of having done the right thing, and I think that doing so has become more crucial than ever. Your behavior was inspiring, and I’m glad that many of those inspired shared their gratitude with you.”

Hubeny also offered advice to help women deal with sexism at work, no matter their field.

“If you allow yourself to enjoy the beautiful things that really matter, if you don’t let social or peer pressure dissuade you from pursuing a field which appeals to you, then no pettiness or childishness or boorishness that you encounter can harm you so much,” she wrote.

Re: “Let her speak please”

#86
> You may be amazed to hear it, but during this panel session I genuinely did not feel affronted or discriminated by the moderator’s behavior. It seemed more amusing to see him try posing a question in a way that at the same time tried answering it. It’s true that this made the question a bit of a moving target for me (and therefore harder to address coherently), but I don’t a-priori assume that the incident was rooted in sexism. Maybe I’m too naive, but I simply gave him the benefit of doubt that he was so excited by the newly-learned idea of the duality that he couldn’t resist, and that the same might have occurred had the panelist been a male instead of me. So it didn’t bother me.

...

> Please understand that I’m not trying to say that sexism in science is a myth. It is real and we should all aspire to diminish it. But I am trying to say that it need not pose as much of an impediment as you might fear and that you might be in more control over its influence yourself than you might think. Just as you put up with long lines to see a great show, or with sore feet or mosquitos to have a great hike etc., the annoyance of otherwise abominable behavior diminishes in the larger perspective of doing something you really enjoy.

https://web.facebook.com/marilee.talkington/posts/1015505138...

Re: “Let her speak please”

#87
post #67

What's really interesting is that the author only became 'boiling' with rage when this socially-unaware moderator talked over the woman on the panel, not when he talked over the other men. This kind of behavior is extremely common in STEM, and happens to everyone. If you don't talk with confidence, purpose, and animation, you're going to get talked over by the alpha nerd of the group. Man, woman, or purple elephant.…

What's really interesting is that you felt the need to insist that there must be no sexism here because it happens to everyone, and that the person in the audience who described her and the audiences reaction is simply imagining the asymmetry. Fallacy of symmetry. Show me a sequence like what happens from 1:03 to 1:06 (the shout out) to her for the men in attendance. This is also not a case of women not speaking up.…

>there must be no sexism here because it happens to everyone, and that the person in the audience who described her and the audiences reaction is simply imagining the asymmetry.

The talking-over happened to everyone, and there is no evidence that the specific talking-over of the female panelist was for reasons any different from the talking-overs of the male panelists. Therefore the talking-over is not itself evidence of sexism. In addition there are no other behaviors that indicate sexism specifically over the course of the video. So it is baffling how anyone can conclude that the talking-over of the female panelist was sexist, unless we are imagining things.

The video is right there -- we don't need to rely on someone's written account, unreliable narrator and all that -- and I've given examples of similarly dominating moderator behavior in another comment.

Re: “Let her speak please”

#88
post #63

Veronika Hubeny(the physicist who got interrupted) replied to the incident, https://www.facebook.com/marilee.talkington/posts/1015505138... Very humble woman.

Could you possibly copy the comment here? I tried to find it in Facebook's "awesome" comment paging system, but I don't know how far through the 9000 comments I have to scroll back. (I assume the URL you posted is supposed to jump me to it, but it doesn't work for non-facebook users like me.) ETA: From the Observer article: http://observer.com/2017/06/sexism-science-facebook-mansplai... “I applaud your heroism in sta…

The comment in full:

Veronika Hubeny: I applaud your heroism in standing up for what you believe in! I know well the shaky feeling and subsequent exhilarated and heartwarmed contentment in the knowledge of having done the right thing, and I think that doing so has become more crucial than ever. Your behavior was inspiring and I’m glad that many of those inspired shared their gratitude with you.

I guess that, being the subject of the incident, it might be worthwhile to offer my perspective, which to my surprise is rather more atypical than I had hitherto realized, but which I hope might perhaps provide some encouragement to all those who feel put off by the present situation — especially to those who feel drawn to science yet dissuaded from following their hearts’ calling. (For posterity I also feel compelled to correct a point about the physics — as a physicist I can’t help myself wink emoticon;-) — but since I realize that that was entirely beside the point of the post, I’ll only do so at the very end…)

You may be amazed to hear it, but during this panel session I genuinely did not feel affronted or discriminated by the moderator’s behavior. It seemed more amusing to see him try posing a question in a way that at the same time tried answering it. It’s true that this made the question a bit of a moving target for me (and therefore harder to address coherently), but I don’t a-priori assume that the incident was rooted in sexism. Maybe I’m too naive, but I simply gave him the benefit of doubt that he was so excited by the newly-learned idea of the duality that he couldn’t resist, and that the same might have occurred had the panelist been a male instead of me. So it didn’t bother me.

In fact, even though in my entire academic career I was in an environment where women were in striking minority (and as a student often the only woman in the class), I never felt discriminated against or thwarted in my calling. The feeling was rather one of camaraderie: the challenges to unravel the deepest mysteries of the universe, the thrill in understanding another tiny bit of this grand puzzle, and the sheer wonder at how beautifully the physics hangs together, put us all in the same boat, so to speak. In retrospect I think I was fortunate in being amongst like-minded physicists who were not only great but gracious and earnest in their love of science. But when I eventually did start coming across others who were not of the same caliber, they somehow seemed insignificant.

I had early on decided that I like physics so much that I’d be quite willing to give up quite a bit of other comforts for it, but perhaps having made that decision and bracing oneself, then made the actual “discomforts” not only more bearable, but genuinely less discomforting. I think the subjective severity of a lot of these issues can be greatly influenced by one’s mindset, one’s psychology. If you allow yourself to enjoy the beautiful things that really matter, if you don’t let social or peer pressure dissuade you from pursuing a field which appeals to you, then no pettiness or childishness or boorishness that you encounter can harm you so much.

Please understand that I’m not trying to say that sexism in science is a myth. It is real and we should all aspire to diminish it. But I am trying to say that it need not pose as much of an impediment as you might fear and that you might be in more control over its influence yourself than you might think. Just as you put up with long lines to see a great show, or with sore feet or mosquitos to have a great hike etc., the annoyance of otherwise abominable behavior diminishes in the larger perspective of doing something you really enjoy.

OK, so now to the physics (sorry): First, what you refer to as the “two theories of string theory that seem to contradict one another” are actually two ‘dual’ descriptions of the same physics, which while curiously different in rather amazing ways, are completely consistent with each other (one using the language of string theory, the other of a field theory). Second, I cannot take credit for inventing this holographic (so-called AdS/CFT) correspondence — I have worked on understanding how it works at a deeper level, but the AdS/CFT was originated by Juan Maldacena in 1997.

Once again, let me stress my appreciation, Marilee, of how you bravely stood up for your principles and values! Well done!

Re: “Let her speak please”

#89
Having watched other parts of the video, I would say this was sexism.

While the moderator had a bad habit of talking too much and answering his own questions to all panelists, he didn't talk over the other (male) panelists, he only seemed to do that to Veronika Hubeny.

Re: “Let her speak please”

#90
post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm a man and I think this term is fine. You don't speak for all men.

Of course I don't. Still it's sad to see that you are OK with sexist behaviour.

I'm not ok with sexist behavior, which is why I think "mansplaining" is such a useful term.
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