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Drupal Confessions – An Open Letter

drupalconfessions.org

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Re: Drupal Confessions – An Open Letter

#81

Post by noir_lord »

speeder wrote: post #51
humanrebar wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Without getting into controversial labels, it's not clear to me who did what to whom and what the people are petitioning for. I seemed to me that (all allegedly) someone was outed as into BDSM and was somehow treated unfairly. I think that certainly falls into the domain of liberal sexual identity politics.

Larry is Gorean Goreans are people that agree with philosophy of professor John Lange, that writes his philosophy in porn books with pen name John Norman What got Larry kicked out is that similarly to Abrahamic religions, Goreans believe there is an inherent hierarchy between men and women. Or at least it is what Dries (Drupal leader) wrote as explanation for the incident. So Larry is being punished literally for "wr…

> Goreanism is not a religion, so probably doesn't count as religious discrimination.

I've often wondered what the difference between a Cult and a Religion is and my best answer seems to be "4 orders of magnitude".

1000 is a cult, 10,000,000 is a Religion.

If it's a numbers game then everyone religion went through a stage where it was a cult (and indeed if you look at the history of religion lots of them where treat that way, Roman treatment of Christianity is a well documented one).

Re: Drupal Confessions – An Open Letter

#82

Post by oneeyedpigeon »

ekianjo wrote: post #33

sorry but how does that work to be for tolerance and anti discrimination in the first place ? anti discrimination means you Do NOT tolerate people who discriminate, so you cant be tolerant at the same time. I always see this kind of contradictions in principles.

Totally agree. I'm fed up of the argument that goes "if you preach tolerance, you must be tolerant of intolerance", for my own understanding of tolerance. Yes, you shouldn't commit a violent act against someone because they are intolerant. No, you shouldn't have to accept their intolerance unreservedly.

I also have an issue with the part of the statement that reads along the lines of "we are against discrimination based on someone's race, gender ... or personal beliefs". Sorry, that's ridiculous. If someone believes Jews are parasites, I'm discriminating against them. If someone thinks women are inherently inferior to men, I'm discriminating against them. If I'm not allowed to react differently to someone because of what they believe in, go ahead and unplug me now because i cease to be a thinking human being.

Re: Drupal Confessions – An Open Letter

#83

Post by nebabyte »

vertex-four wrote: post #56
amiga-workbench wrote: post #4

I'm actually impressed, from the first few lines I was expecting another social justice fueled witch hunt, but instead we have the exact opposite here.

For the record, a large chunk of the social justice community are kinky (and, separately, a large chunk of the kink community agrees broadly with modern feminist views). Nobody I've spoken to within my subset of the social justice community wants somebody to be removed from the Drupal community based on how they go about their personal relationships and sexuality.

> For the record, a large chunk of the social justice community are ki

Gonna stop you right there - there exists no "record" this needs to be on.

Or rather, were there a need for it to be "on a record", such a community would already be failing their supposed 'without the community needing to know or care' ideal.

Re: Drupal Confessions – An Open Letter

#84

Post by 5ourpu55 »

iplaw wrote: post #29

This is very true. A large portion of these so-labeled SJWs preach inclusion* and diversity^. It's all about total and blind conformity to and their constructed alternative reality, based on unquestionable and irrefutable faux-offense. * inclusion limited to like-minded individuals who share the same ideas about gender, religion, feminism, capitalism, politics, race, nationality, hair color and cut, health and body i…

What is your suggested alternative?

Re: Drupal Confessions – An Open Letter

#86

Post by humanrebar »

Udo wrote: post #67
humanrebar wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> ...as long as that belief is not in some way construed as a community value... I honestly don't care about that even, as long as people can discuss their ideas and leave the group if they're done tolerating each other. > It's one of the simple facts of life that you pretty have to work with people who believe all kinds of things... In popular usage, "tolerance" is slowly becoming synonymous with "acceptance" or "ce…

> I honestly don't care about that even, as long as people can discuss their ideas and leave the group if they're done tolerating each other. Personally I'd agree with that, but analogous to being the employee of a company, it becomes a problem if off-topic distractions seep into the daily business, especially if these conflicts have a potential to escalate into the public view, and especially if the convictions in q…

I think tolerance, professionalism, and pragmatism all fit well together. Replacing tolerance with "tolerance"? The track record isn't strong.

I don't follow the caveat for unethical behavior. Do you expect the organization to align to your ethics? Everyone is unethical to someone. The best we can hope for, I think, is to find a common ethic (no lying, no stealing, no verbal abuse, etc.) and agree to part ways respectfully to the degree we can't.

Re: Drupal Confessions – An Open Letter

#87

Post by lr4444lr »

humanrebar wrote: post #47
pavlov wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Eich was CEO, though. It's a special position in any organization. The board can ask you to leave at any time if you seem to be a liability, and the mere optics of a PR issue can be enough. That's why CEOs often have such generous compensation packages in the event of involuntary termination.

> The board can ask you to leave at any time if you seem to be a liability... It's worth noting that many of the objections are about private information being misused. Eich was actually outed from a donor list that was leaked. There's a lot of parallels here if the concern is about "doxxing" activities. I also have a really hard time with the "but CEOs are different argument". So could being a Democrat in a red stat…

CEOs serve at will. Their job duties include being an emissary to the industry, and leading the company's reputation. I say what happened to Garfield was wrong, but agree that the Mozilla board made the right decision on Eich, who could not effectively carry out his general duties given the PR liability he became - not of his own making even. They didn't say he couldn't be a part of the org. as a lead software architect, for example; he just couldn't be allowed to continue as CEO given the mission of defending and promoting Mozilla which the board is bound to do. It was strictly business.

Re: Drupal Confessions – An Open Letter

#88

Post by Cthulhu_ »

julie1 wrote: post #11

It convinces me Code Of Conduct are basically sticks that will not harm you when you are on the right side of them. Do communities needs sticks to be driven one sided way like cows? At this point it feels like they kind of defy their reason to be and are pretty misused.

Code(s) of Conduct should be used only for that second word - conduct. How you behave inside a community or conference; your personal beliefs should be kept out of it.

Just write code and stick to business, preferably under a pseudonym. This gets difficult when contributing to projects for which you need to sign a developer agreement for legal reasons though.

Re: Drupal Confessions – An Open Letter

#89

Post by nebabyte »

LordKano wrote: post #50
pavlov wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Eich was CEO, though. It's a special position in any organization. The board can ask you to leave at any time if you seem to be a liability, and the mere optics of a PR issue can be enough. That's why CEOs often have such generous compensation packages in the event of involuntary termination.

Eich didn't engage in advocacy as an executive, he did so as a private citizen.

> The board can ask you to leave at any time if you seem to be a liability

Re: Drupal Confessions – An Open Letter

#90

Post by vertex-four »

nebabyte wrote: post #83
vertex-four wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For the record, a large chunk of the social justice community are kinky (and, separately, a large chunk of the kink community agrees broadly with modern feminist views). Nobody I've spoken to within my subset of the social justice community wants somebody to be removed from the Drupal community based on how they go about their personal relationships and sexuality.

> For the record, a large chunk of the social justice community are ki Gonna stop you right there - there exists no "record" this needs to be on. Or rather, were there a need for it to be "on a record", such a community would already be failing their supposed 'without the community needing to know or care' ideal.

I'm just saying, that it'd be entirely illogical for the social justice community at large to be against the practice of kink, given that many of its members practice kink in a wide variety of ways. There's no reason to assume that the SJW community at large will be against the practice of any consensual sexuality, which many people in this thread are doing.
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