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Why Do So Many Incompetent Men Become Leaders? (2013)

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Re: Why Do So Many Incompetent Men Become Leaders? (2013)

#81

One of the most interesting facts in Francis Fukuyama's The Origins of Political Order was that the most primordial form of human social groupings, small bands of hunter gatherers, are organised along egalitarian and democratic lines, without any recognisable leader. There may be an individual who the other members of the band listen to more than others, but only due to their proven experience and wisdom. And there i…

Hunter-gatherers generally didn't store meat. Therefore, when the best hunter in the group brought home a large animal, he shared it with all. Likewise, there were few physical possessions or need for such, and so these were shared too.

But egalitarian? Not a chance. Studies show that even modern hunters expend enormous energy and risk their lives hunting over the real prize: access to mates.

Re: Why Do So Many Incompetent Men Become Leaders? (2013)

#83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

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Your accusation of the education system being hampered by a "feminist agenda" that doesn't see Donald Trump's foundation of "truth, personal responsibility and perseverence" has collected you enough downvotes that no censorship is necessary.

[deleted]

Re: Why Do So Many Incompetent Men Become Leaders? (2013)

#84
Reminds me of how when you say you dont know everything about XYZ language/framework to an hr person or recruiter they look at you like incompetent. Meanwhile saying that you knew everything about XYZ language/framework to a technical person would have them thinking you're incompetent.

Re: Why Do So Many Incompetent Men Become Leaders? (2013)

#85
post #4

The more I read about this sort of thing (and read comments on these articles), the more I'm told that there are, in fact, innate gender differences, and the PC crowd is censoring important discussions. I'm starting to believe it, and I think that this article is an excellent example of the sort of politically-incorrect research we need to pay attention to.

This article doesn't even begin to posit "innate gender differences" It shows a correlation in confidence displayed to gender, but social conditioning of either confidence display or confidence interpretation are as good an explanation as any innate differences. It's even supported by some research, so it's actually a stronger hypothesis than yours.

Seems to me you're playing hide the ball a bit here. If it's the case that society conditions men to display confidence, then aren't we left to explain why _that_ might be the case? Why doesn't society condition women to be the more confident? How did we get here? The null hypothesis would probably be that innate gender differences created the current sociological environment, creating a chicken and egg problem.

This reminds me of the argument that women's under-representation in STEM fields begins during childhood when we condition them with toys that don't encourage spatial reasoning. This claim leaves a gigantic dangling question of "Why are toy companies and parents so damn bad at understanding what little girls want to play with?" The literature supports the intuitive truth of the matter: girls and boys find their toy affinities on their own without much input from society.

Incidentally, I think most people are morally taking the wrong tack when it comes to this kind of stuff. If you make a value judgment that having an affinity for leadership or spatial reasoning is Good, then you are no longer free to interpret the actual world without worrying that the data will show men are Better (or Worse). Why can't we accept men and women as they are, and stop pre-supposing equality of all measurements that we might consider desirable? If it turns out that men are naturally suited to taking leadership roles, who cares? It takes all kinds to make a functional society, and in the scheme of things, leaders are a tiny thread in that tapestry. I find the role of leader or mathematician to be equally valuable to artist, baker, carpenter, fashion designer, grocer, mother or father. Each of them is a valuable member of society that should earn a fundamental human dignity. In my view, admonishing women to pursue engineering is equally repugnant to demanding they avoid it! Let's encourage all of the women who find engineering or mathematics irresistible, but avoid fretting about the many who don't!

Re: Why Do So Many Incompetent Men Become Leaders? (2013)

#86
post #74
post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>if you're a minority or a woman for hundreds of thousands of years having your tribe represented by a confident male (selected from the majority of the tribe) was beneficial (at least we can conclude that now based on the survivor bias principle) We still have those cave man instincts with us to a high degree. The point of civilization development is to reign in cave man instincts inside and among us. Seems that it…

Anthropologists have studied hunter gatherer tribes for a long time and it is not as simple as those with the most confidence becomes leaders. For example, among the San people tribe leadership is shared by the elders. And anyone can become an elder by surviving til old age. In day to day tasks, such as during hunting, who leads the hunt is determined on a rotating schedule so that all men get to lead it from time to…

>Another interesting tidbit noted by many anthropologists is that boasting is strictly forbidden.

Are you saying that this applies to every tribe in the world? Because if so, I don't buy it. It's too far fetched that every tribe in the world except everyone who advanced past the hunter gatherer stage would share this cultural trait. Aside from it being unreasonable that all tribes would share this trait, it would also seem to imply that modest people cannot advance to the modern age, which is also difficult to swallow.

Re: Why Do So Many Incompetent Men Become Leaders? (2013)

#87
post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Welcome to HN! You sound bitter.

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"Hacker News" is a bit of a misnomer. Submissions need neither be for hackers (in the strict, "person who uses computers to gain unauthorized access to data" sense) or even current. From the guidelines:

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

On-Topic: Anything that good hackers would find interesting. That includes more than hacking and startups. If you had to reduce it to a sentence, the answer might be: anything that gratifies one's intellectual curiosity.

Edit to add:

HN also strongly values civil, constructive discourse. Given some of your other comments, I suspect what you're interpreting as censorship is the community reacting to the tone and language of your comments. Also, while there has been plenty of politics on HN recently (for a variety of reasons), HN isn't primarily for ideological discourse: HN members are likely reacting to that, as well.

I get the impression that this isn't your first account on HN. If that's the case, I hope you can find HN to be productive for you as part of the community with this new account.

Re: Why Do So Many Incompetent Men Become Leaders? (2013)

#89
post #5

Summary: "We commonly misinterpret displays of confidence as a sign of competence". See "Assholes, a Theory" (2014). Despite the title, this is a serious book and well worth reading. [1] https://www.amazon.com/Assholes-Theory-Aaron-James/dp/080417...

It's probably a pretty good strategy to use if you have nothing else to go on.

Re: Why Do So Many Incompetent Men Become Leaders? (2013)

#90
post #73

I would say that it's not that incompetent men become leaders. Certainly men are over-represented, but I would wager that woman leaders are no more competent on average. The truth is almost everyone is incompetent and leaders get more scrutiny.

Pursuant to the topic, though, leadership pays more and therefore is populated by sexist men hiring each other. Emergent properties.

>Pursuant to the topic, though, leadership pays more and therefore is populated by sexist men hiring each other.

Is there any evidence this is true?

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