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Reflecting on one very, very strange year at Uber

susanjfowler.com

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Re: Reflecting on one very, very strange year at Uber

#81

Post by vertex-four »

tfar wrote: post #51
HarryHirsch wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

HR serves to protect the company, you have to think in HR's shoes. If the complainant goes away and finds another job the problem is solved. Most harassment cases tend not to end up in court, usually the aggrieved party quits.

"HR serves to protect the company" That point comes up every time a bad-HR related post is placed here. However, isn't it very short sighted to consider silencing/removing the accusers a protection of the company. This results in a bad culture and bad PR about that culture in developer circles. Won't the reduced diversity and all that comes with it have bad effect on the company long term?

Plus the lawsuits that should be brought... except that bringing a lawsuit on a sexual harassment case results in even more of the same shit in court, plus potential employers hearing about it.

Re: Reflecting on one very, very strange year at Uber

#82

Post by ejlangev »

Nothing really surprising here though. Tech (and the world) has always had a problem with sexism. Uber is particularly egregious but given the long history of quotes from the CEO is it any surprise that this is their culture? Writing was on the wall the whole time.

Just to add something to the torrent of links already in these comments http://observer.com/2016/02/ubers-10-worst-actions-threats-l....

Re: Reflecting on one very, very strange year at Uber

#83

Post by pvg »

moocow01 wrote: post #70
pvg wrote: post #40

For all the people saying 'HR works for the company' and 'She should have sued!', I think you're underestimating how difficult that is to do. You're reading the account of a person who was clearly perfectly aware of her rights and how corporate workspaces operate. What would you actually do in their position? You leave work one evening, go home and google 'lawyer that will get me lots of money from my company and wor…

No - employee lawsuits are not that uncommon. The vast majority are settled before they see the inside of courtroom. The majority that do go to a courtroom go the employees way unfortunately for employers in frivolous cases. Talking to a labour law attorney to consult about your case is not that expensive - if you have an open and shut case most lawyers will want to work on a contingency fee anyways.

I'm happy to hear more about this, is this something you've personally done or represented someone in such a case? What steps should one take in such a situation, if you have experience in it?

Re: Reflecting on one very, very strange year at Uber

#84

Post by stevebmark »

username223 wrote: post #73
calcsam wrote: post #15

In case anyone isn't sure why the original interaction is harassment: relationships within a reporting chain are generally prohibited, for both legal, ethical, and practical reasons. Sex becoming part of the effective job description crosses both legal and ethical lines, and team effectiveness is hindered when people wonder whether someone is getting special treatment because they're sleeping with the boss. A manager…

Not just sex, but sex in an "open relationship," presumably as "backup booty." It's hard for me to understand why she didn't immediately start trying to GTFO, but instead stuck around for a year and tried to make things work. Save transcripts and screenshots, find a new job, then sue at leisure.

You really can't think of a reason why someone would want to stay at a company like Uber? Salary? Stock options? Career path? Career security? Coworkers? The early belief that HR would help correct this? She did end up leaving the company after trying to fix it. Your not understanding why she stayed for so long is part of the problem.

Re: Reflecting on one very, very strange year at Uber

#85

Post by anon_uber_eng »

Jeez this sucks. Everything that happened was so completely unacceptable. I really hope people are held accountable for this stuff. This kind of behavior isn't new and shouldn't be normal. The Infrastructure group specifically has is known for this politicking and bad culture. I work elsewhere, and though it isn't as bad, agree there is a big management problem at play. I'm sorry you couldn't find a team that supported you. Thank you Susan for writing all this.

Re: Reflecting on one very, very strange year at Uber

#86

Post by u_wot_m8 »

sokoloff wrote: post #71
u_wot_m8 wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd like the think that eventually karma will catch up with Uber. Hard to think of a single positive thing to say about the company.

Here's my positive thing. Taking a cab to the airport from my house in Cambridge, MA runs about $42 before tip, so call it $48 or so. An UberX costs $24.30 right now and UberPool costs $14.30 right now. Additionally, I can summon the ride more easily and get better feedback about the arrival time, giving me more confidence/less anxiety that I'll have a problem getting to the airport on time. As a consumer, by reducin…

You could say the same about lyft, seemingly minus the illegal and immoral behavior, though they might get away with the same behavior due to not being in the spotlight as much as Uber

Re: Reflecting on one very, very strange year at Uber

#87

Post by Kluny »

throwaway_374 wrote: post #25

To show our solidarity against this kind of behaviour by corporate, we should all crowd fund your lawyer's fees and teach Uber a big fucking lesson really blow it out of the water. Really stick it to them. I'll happily begin contributions. edit: rather pathetic with all the male chauvanistic Uber engineers on here downvoting away.

Downvotes are anonymous, you have no way of knowing who's doing it. I think you're more likely being downvoted for the swearing and obvious fact that the author has no interest in suing as she has better things to do.

Re: Reflecting on one very, very strange year at Uber

#88

Post by more_corn »

HarryHirsch wrote: post #30
jackweirdy wrote: post #13

> The HR rep began the meeting by asking me if I had noticed that I was the common theme in all of the reports I had been making That's such a meaningless thing for an HR person to ask someone, that it clearly only serves to be patronising and hopefully stop them bringing problems up. I mean, how could you as an HR staffer possibly justify your inaction with an argument like that? "We didn't act on any of their compl…

HR serves to protect the company, you have to think in HR's shoes. If the complainant goes away and finds another job the problem is solved. Most harassment cases tend not to end up in court, usually the aggrieved party quits.

The best thing HR can do to protect the company is to take prompt, effective action in cases of sexual harassment. If they fail to do that they expose the company to lawsuits. In this case Uber would clearly lose. Sometimes companies need to be taken to court to be reminded of their obligations. For the sake of the women still there and any women who may be considering going there, I sincerely hope this goes to court. I expect the punitive damages to be in the tens of millions of dollars, perhaps that would be a sufficient reminder.

Re: Reflecting on one very, very strange year at Uber

#89

Post by jacquesm »

username223 wrote: post #73
calcsam wrote: post #15

In case anyone isn't sure why the original interaction is harassment: relationships within a reporting chain are generally prohibited, for both legal, ethical, and practical reasons. Sex becoming part of the effective job description crosses both legal and ethical lines, and team effectiveness is hindered when people wonder whether someone is getting special treatment because they're sleeping with the boss. A manager…

Not just sex, but sex in an "open relationship," presumably as "backup booty." It's hard for me to understand why she didn't immediately start trying to GTFO, but instead stuck around for a year and tried to make things work. Save transcripts and screenshots, find a new job, then sue at leisure.

> It's hard for me to understand why she didn't immediately start trying to GTFO, but instead stuck around for a year and tried to make things work.

Some possibilities:

- Because she's loyal to her co-workers

- Maybe still not jaded enough to jump ship at the first reason

- quite possibly didn't have another job lined up to jump ship to

A year isn't all that long, and if things had been turned around who knows she might still be working there today. Obviously they have not, things have gone rapidly downhill so she made the right choice in abandoning Uber but you really can't fault someone for trying to fix things before they give up.

Re: Reflecting on one very, very strange year at Uber

#90

Post by eloisant »

raverbashing wrote: post #12
0898 wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

HR works for the organisation. It's not there to protect you. Source: work in the HR industry.

Working for the organization should also mean avoiding potential lawsuits

Also working for the organization doesn't mean working for that specific middle manager who keeps harassing co-workers.
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