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U.S. sues Oracle, alleges salary and hiring discrimination

reuters.com

81–90 of 507 posts

Re: U.S. sues Oracle, alleges salary and hiring discrimination

#81

How easy is it for new DOL administration to back out of this? Trivial, right? No real consequences.

I'll just leave this here: http://fortune.com/2017/01/17/oracle-trump/

Oracle is dying. Political connections might help them die a little more slowly, but there isn't much they can do when they have fundamentally fallen behind the technology zeitgeist.

Don't get me wrong, they're not about to disappear any time soon - they have too many moats around their existing slow-moving government and traditional corporate customers. But they aren't a threat to companies like Google or Amazon.

Re: U.S. sues Oracle, alleges salary and hiring discrimination

#82
post #18

SO much this.

The millennials and the way you talk. Ridiculous. No wonder you can't find a date.

I'm not gonna lie, I've said some pretty fucked up things on here when I've been inebriated, but the amount of pure malice in your reply even made me look twice.

I'm sure that same winning personality makes you a huge catch.

Re: U.S. sues Oracle, alleges salary and hiring discrimination

#83
post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

" Most of the time it is just easier to hire Asian/Indian employees because they are readily available " - I doubt that. It's "easier" to hire because they "agree" to lower wages and its easier to retain them, because their visa status is tied to the employer. The employers have H1B workers on a leash. The process of hiring an H1B worker in short. - Hire an immigration lawyer. - Post an LCA. - Apply petition to USCIS…

> It's "easier" to hire because they "agree" to lower wages and its easier to retain them Wow. Why do you think someone on H1B will agree for a lower wage assuming he/she has a good skill set to get into oracle or similar company? Changing to a diff job on H1B involves some paper work which everyone is used to do now. If we are talking about Indian consulting companies getting low wage employees, it might be partiall…

Because some of us live in the real world and see this literally happening every single day?

Re: U.S. sues Oracle, alleges salary and hiring discrimination

#84
post #59
post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

" Most of the time it is just easier to hire Asian/Indian employees because they are readily available " - I doubt that. It's "easier" to hire because they "agree" to lower wages and its easier to retain them, because their visa status is tied to the employer. The employers have H1B workers on a leash. The process of hiring an H1B worker in short. - Hire an immigration lawyer. - Post an LCA. - Apply petition to USCIS…

H1B workers can, and routinely do, switch companies. Their new employer has only to file the paperwork to transfer their visa, so your assumptions about retaining H1B workers are not very accurate.

I've mentioned this elsewhere before, but I've had experiences at both ends of the H1B chain.

In one workplace & location in the US: The H1B workers were...not very good. Adequate, and hard working, but not highly skilled and they were brought in mainly because the location didn't want to/couldn't pay wages good enough to hire skilled US-based talent. There the H1B workers were (in general) fearful and unwilling to complain, because they knew their personal odds of getting another US gig were NOT guaranteed. This left me understanding the various H1B complaints, as the workplace was terrible.

In another workplace in a different US location, the H1B workers were equal or better than any US-citizens working there. The workers were highly sought after and were interested in speaking up to make the workplace better. Switching jobs for them WAS a hassle, but a very doable hassle, so the workplace had keep them as happy as non-H1B workers. This left me understanding the OTHER side of the H1B issues, as these workers raised up rather than lowered their workplaces.

I've had multiple friends spend months uncertain if their visas would be renewed (Most companies seem to employ offshore lawyers to handle the visas on the other ends, and I've heard some horror stories about those lawyers sometimes vanishing, or misfiling). Also, I've had friends that had to stay put in a job during a certain phase of getting their green cards - a change in job title would reportedly move them back to the end of the queue of that step. (No idea about the specifics)

All in all, I've found it pretty hard to generalize about H1B workers and the process as an entire whole.

Re: U.S. sues Oracle, alleges salary and hiring discrimination

#85
post #9
post #5

> technology company systematically paid its white, male employees more than other workers and unlawfully favored Asian applicants in its recruiting and hiring efforts. Wow...this is big.

And also not believable. The idea Oracle had a system that paid white guys more because they were white guys isn't credible without more than just salary evidence.

You act like the DOJ is just shooting from the hip here. Yes, it's believable, because the DOJ said under penalty of perjury in a federal court that it's happening. Hand-wavey "not believable" replies are ridiculous.

Re: U.S. sues Oracle, alleges salary and hiring discrimination

#86
Question: as an employer what exactly am I supposed to do if when I put a req out for an engineer, >>>>50% of applicants are asian?

Is the burden really on me to dig through the remaining applicants for good ones?

These laws really sound like people with no skin in the game demanding things for which they don't know all ramifications.

Re: U.S. sues Oracle, alleges salary and hiring discrimination

#87
post #68
post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you anonymize it and make it completely chat based how do you make sure that the person you are chatting with is really the applicant and not someone else?

You'd need a third party that you both trust. If you both don't trust anyone, there are ways around that too...

Blockchain for hiring/interviews?

Re: U.S. sues Oracle, alleges salary and hiring discrimination

#88
post #29
post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And also not believable. The idea Oracle had a system that paid white guys more because they were white guys isn't credible without more than just salary evidence.

"Specifically, OFCCP found gross disparities in pay even after controlling for job title, full-time status, exempt status, global career level, job specialty, estimated prior work experience, and company tenure." https://www.dol.gov/sites/default/files/newsroom/newsrelease...

Interesting omission, "immigration status".

Re: U.S. sues Oracle, alleges salary and hiring discrimination

#89
post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, for one, you can hide contact info from a resume (which is still stored in a system somewhere, with a unique ID). And you can also make the early stages of your interview email or text-chat based (or just a Google Doc, like some companies do), to eliminate any potential bias in things that can be inferred from voice like accent, region, and gender. Obviously once they're on-site for an interview, you can't anon…

It's difficult. I remember coming out of school, employers tried to anonymize for various things, especially with respect to things like race. Black students would, in an anonymized resume with contact info removed for example, state that they were "Treasurer for the Black Students Association" or "NAACP Volunteer", or things to that effect. My point is that I think that an Asian person, applying to a company known t…

Build a loop into the workflow for "You're insufficiently anonymous, resubmit", with a special way to enter "significant award/position/membership with deanonymizing title, X level of prestige/selectivity/membership"? Might be valuable anyway so you don't accidentally get peoples' personal biases into play - different people will weight "NAACP award" very differently.
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