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Steve Jobs Has Just Gone Mad

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Re: Steve Jobs Has Just Gone Mad

#81

Post by akmiller »

tptacek wrote: post #28
orangecat wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Arguably yes. Microsoft never tried to stop users from running whatever software they wanted on Windows, they just made it more inconvenient in some cases to get that software.

"I will use my operating system monopoly to put you out of business if you don't assist me in putting an unrelated competitor of ours out of business" is worse to you than "you may only use Objective C to develop on this device"? I don't like Objective C either, but I don't take it that far.

Microsoft, as all companies would, is going to use their successful product(s) to push other products that they create. They had 95%+ of the OS market and simply wanted to push the use of their browser to those individuals. That doesn't and never has seemed like a dirty tactic to me. Apple pushes its own products over its competitors on the iPhone. You won't see Opera on the default dock bar on the iPhone anytime soon...it may never even be approved to be in the app store. Microsoft may have made it tough for their competition (and I'm sure they crossed the line many times as you mention) but they certainly aren't telling the folks at Mozilla now that Firefox must be re-written in .Net or they aren't going to allow it to run on their platform!

Re: Steve Jobs Has Just Gone Mad

#82

Post by rimantas »

tptacek wrote: post #15
vegashacker wrote: post #10

Sure I've had my moments of App Store frustration, but all in all, I haven't been as offended by it as a lot of folks. I think that's because I felt that Apple was giving me something that I couldn't easily find elsewhere (single point of distribution that everyone knows about, very few taps for users to install my apps, the ability to easily charge for apps), so I was okay if they were a little particular about the…

I'm puzzled, since Apple has been shutting off fundamental techniques in computer science since day one. Today it's Flash compilers. Yesterday it was access to the filesystem, things that run in the background, etc.

  Yesterday it was access to the filesystem,
  things that run in the background, etc.
No, yesterday they did add the things that run in background. Flash compiler being a fundamental technique in computer science? Please…

Re: Steve Jobs Has Just Gone Mad

#83

Post by corysama »

tptacek wrote: post #15
vegashacker wrote: post #10

Sure I've had my moments of App Store frustration, but all in all, I haven't been as offended by it as a lot of folks. I think that's because I felt that Apple was giving me something that I couldn't easily find elsewhere (single point of distribution that everyone knows about, very few taps for users to install my apps, the ability to easily charge for apps), so I was okay if they were a little particular about the…

I'm puzzled, since Apple has been shutting off fundamental techniques in computer science since day one. Today it's Flash compilers. Yesterday it was access to the filesystem, things that run in the background, etc.

Keep in mind tha the grand joke is that Adobe's Flash compiler is based on LLVM -a project that is heavily sponsored by Apple.

Re: Steve Jobs Has Just Gone Mad

#84

Post by isleyaardvark »

danparsonson wrote: post #21

The key is where they say "Applications must be originally written in Objective-C, C, C++." Take a pause and think about what that "originally" really means. Developers are not free to use any tools to help them. If there is some tool that converts some Pascal or, Ruby, or Java into Objective-C it is out of bounds, because then the code is not "originally" written in C. Yes it is "originally" written in C - when the…

e.g. run-times that execute byte code

I thought that was already forbidden. If so, why the change, if not to stymie thins like Adobe's Flash-to-iPhone converter?

Re: Steve Jobs Has Just Gone Mad

#85

Post by rimantas »

rimantas wrote: post #82
tptacek wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm puzzled, since Apple has been shutting off fundamental techniques in computer science since day one. Today it's Flash compilers. Yesterday it was access to the filesystem, things that run in the background, etc.

Yesterday it was access to the filesystem, things that run in the background, etc. No, yesterday they did add the things that run in background. Flash compiler being a fundamental technique in computer science? Please…

Ok, correction: yesterday they introduced iPhone OS 4 with background services. How Flash is fundamental in CS is still a mystery to me.

Re: Steve Jobs Has Just Gone Mad

#86

Post by vegashacker »

NickPollard wrote: post #65
vegashacker wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, that's exactly what the terms are saying you _can't_ do. If you used something like GOAL, you wouldn't be starting out in Objective C, and thus you'd be in violation of the new terms.

He was referring to game consoles, for which you _can_ use other languages to compile down from, so they are less restrictive than the iPhone.

Thanks. Sorry, I misread. And that's an interesting point too, because until now, an argument I commonly heard in support of Apple was, "At least the App Store is better than the console game environment."

Re: Steve Jobs Has Just Gone Mad

#87

Post by tptacek »

skywalker wrote: post #74
tptacek wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"I will use my operating system monopoly to put you out of business if you don't assist me in putting an unrelated competitor of ours out of business" is worse to you than "you may only use Objective C to develop on this device"? I don't like Objective C either, but I don't take it that far.

"I will use my operating system monopoly to put you out of business if you don't assist me in putting an unrelated competitor of ours out of business" is worse to you than "you may only use Objective C to develop on this device"? What about this: "I will use my mobile operating system prestige to put your mobile company out of business if you don't assist me in putting a competitor of ours, Adobe, out of the mobile a…

Sorry to be so presumptious but I don't think you've thought this through. Microsoft threatened to drive companies out of the computer industry. There are still plenty of other viable mobile platforms to develop for if the iPhone doesn't work out for you.

Re: Steve Jobs Has Just Gone Mad

#88

Post by api »

jfoutz wrote: post #40
tptacek wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm puzzled, since Apple has been shutting off fundamental techniques in computer science since day one. Today it's Flash compilers. Yesterday it was access to the filesystem, things that run in the background, etc.

I half agree. The filesystem is just a device. No running in the background is kinda icky, but that doesn't seem like a computer science kinda thing. (not that multitasking isn't hard, it's just not the first thing that jumps to mind when thinking of simulating things on a turing machine) Language to language translation, that's core. that's fundamental to CS. The most popular virtual machine ever is the regular expr…

I agree. Nucking futz. This is much crazier than anything Microsoft has done in recent memory.

Re: Steve Jobs Has Just Gone Mad

#89

Post by reynolds »

rimantas wrote: post #85
rimantas wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yesterday it was access to the filesystem, things that run in the background, etc. No, yesterday they did add the things that run in background. Flash compiler being a fundamental technique in computer science? Please…

Ok, correction: yesterday they introduced iPhone OS 4 with background services. How Flash is fundamental in CS is still a mystery to me.

It's not necessarily Flash that's fundamental in computer science. It's compiler technology that's the computer science part.

Re: Steve Jobs Has Just Gone Mad

#90

Post by anigbrowl »

warfangle wrote: post #69
makmanalp wrote: post #42

This is another gem: “10.4 Press Releases and Other Publicity. You may not issue any press releases or make any other public statements regarding this Agreement, its terms and conditions, or the relationship of the parties without Apple’s express prior written approval, which may be withheld at Apple’s discretion.”

Somehow I doubt that clause is enforceable.

It's not enforceable in the same way that having all your apps removed from the app store isn't actionable. Anyone engaged in commercial development for the iPhone only does so at Apple's pleasure, which may be revoked at any time.

Of course, if this causes your users to seek refunds and you have already spent your earnings, that could get problematic.

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