Steve Jobs Has Just Gone Mad • Hacker News Board

Re: Steve Jobs Has Just Gone Mad

#61

Post by wvenable » Fri, Apr 09, 2010, 4:30 PM UTC

thenduks wrote: post #38

I don't get this at all. Why does everyone act like the iPhone should be as 'open' as an OS on your computer? Did everyone forget that when the iPhone shipped you couldn't write apps at all ? You can't write apps in Erlang for your Zune, your PS3, your cable modem, your microwave, your car or your apartments alarm system... no one cares. Yes, Apple wants (insists, even, if this ToS becomes final) you to use their too…

"Did everyone forget that when the iPhone shipped you couldn't write apps at all?"

Yup. And did you forget all the complaints about that too and then the jailbreaking and then the development of apps without any SDK at all? You have to wonder if Apple would have ever created the app store if programmers hadn't done all that.

"Why does everyone act like the iPhone should be as 'open' as an OS on your computer?"

Why shouldn't it be? You act like merely complaining about something should be a crime. If Apple is well within their rights to do what they want with their platform, we're well within our rights to complain about it.

Re: Steve Jobs Has Just Gone Mad

#62

Post by crux_ » Fri, Apr 09, 2010, 4:31 PM UTC

alexandros wrote: post #56

I was always critical of Apple's closed ecosystem but nobody saw this coming. In a sense, they're not even leaving room for doubt that they are not to be trusted. What's worse, essentially developers are now told that they have to put up or shut up, since Apple has the apps market cornered, and their app store full of apps. Developers take heed. Every time you write an application for Steve's app store, it's just one…

> nobody saw this coming

Surely you jest.

Lots and lots of people saw this coming; they were just dismissed as radical idealistic free software hippies.

Re: Steve Jobs Has Just Gone Mad

#63

Post by nfnaaron » Fri, Apr 09, 2010, 4:32 PM UTC

sant0sk1 wrote: post #34

jrockway wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, and that's why your console spends 90% of its life powered off.

Don't get me wrong, I think it is a stupid policy even for Nintendo, Sony et al. My point is that stupid != insane.

Insanely stupid then.

Re: Steve Jobs Has Just Gone Mad

#64

Post by fab13n » Fri, Apr 09, 2010, 4:34 PM UTC

warfangle wrote: post #17

While this sucks for iPhone developers who want to branch out / use other languages (clojure, etc), it might persuade these developers to move over to the Android platform. Especially given the several Android tablets forthcoming...

Apple is of course conscious of this trade-off (attractiveness of the platform+customer base vs. unattractiveness of being treated like shit by Apple).

The thing is, they can easily back off when they will have to: today, most app developers won't snob the iPhone even if they're treated miserably. If they can't afford Android+iPhone portability, most of them will choose iPhone-only over Android-only.

If/when a competitor starts to be attractive enough to represent a treat, Jobs will announce a big change towards a more developer-friendly policy. Today, he thinks he can get away with being a dick, and he's probably right IMO.

Re: Steve Jobs Has Just Gone Mad

#65

Post by NickPollard » Fri, Apr 09, 2010, 4:34 PM UTC

vegashacker wrote: post #41

oconnor0 wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even if they do you can still write your own languages that compile down. Ala: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Game_Oriented_Assembly_Lisp

No, that's exactly what the terms are saying you _can't_ do. If you used something like GOAL, you wouldn't be starting out in Objective C, and thus you'd be in violation of the new terms.

He was referring to game consoles, for which you _can_ use other languages to compile down from, so they are less restrictive than the iPhone.

Re: Steve Jobs Has Just Gone Mad

#66

Post by lallysingh » Fri, Apr 09, 2010, 4:38 PM UTC

wvenable wrote: post #50

ahi wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is precisely the point. They don't need more apps, they need more AAA apps.

That might be true, but the implicit assumption here is that only EA can make AAA games and indie developers just produce crap. That assumption has been demonstrated to be false on both points.

Not at all! You can buy a few C++ game engines (e.g. Torque) and port them. I have Torque running on Linux, Solaris, Mac, & Windows. Considering it's normal posix underneath, you just have to redo some plumbing.

Re: Steve Jobs Has Just Gone Mad

#67

Post by nfnaaron » Fri, Apr 09, 2010, 4:38 PM UTC

So why doesn't Adobe just add a feature to their tool, that will take an app originally written for the iPhone in Jobs-approved languages, suck that source up and produce either source for Adobe's tools or source directly for other phones?

It doesn't take care of existing apps that were written elsewhere first, but it does take care people who can write iPhone apps and would like to port those elsewhere.

Re: Steve Jobs Has Just Gone Mad

#68

Post by DannoHung » Fri, Apr 09, 2010, 4:40 PM UTC

tptacek wrote: post #15

vegashacker wrote: post #10

Sure I've had my moments of App Store frustration, but all in all, I haven't been as offended by it as a lot of folks. I think that's because I felt that Apple was giving me something that I couldn't easily find elsewhere (single point of distribution that everyone knows about, very few taps for users to install my apps, the ability to easily charge for apps), so I was okay if they were a little particular about the…

I'm puzzled, since Apple has been shutting off fundamental techniques in computer science since day one. Today it's Flash compilers. Yesterday it was access to the filesystem, things that run in the background, etc.

Sandboxing an application is a bit different than mandating that the code be originally written in a certain way, regardless of what they compile to.

Re: Steve Jobs Has Just Gone Mad

#69

Post by warfangle » Fri, Apr 09, 2010, 4:41 PM UTC

makmanalp wrote: post #42

This is another gem: “10.4 Press Releases and Other Publicity. You may not issue any press releases or make any other public statements regarding this Agreement, its terms and conditions, or the relationship of the parties without Apple’s express prior written approval, which may be withheld at Apple’s discretion.”

Somehow I doubt that clause is enforceable.

Re: Steve Jobs Has Just Gone Mad

#70

Post by bsaunder » Fri, Apr 09, 2010, 4:44 PM UTC

Gee, I thought they meant "originally" as in:

"My code was originally written in C, but I've now ported it to Clojure." ;)

Of course as I make changes, it produces C that compiles to normal .o files that are then (without any further translation, compatibility layer, or tool required) linked with the Documented APIs.