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Europe Is Going After Google Hard, and Google May Not Win

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Re: Europe Is Going After Google Hard, and Google May Not Win

#81

Post by k-mcgrady »

jshevek wrote: post #76
k-mcgrady wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Could you make your point more clearly? Google is potentially breaking laws and being investigated for that. If Amazon or Apple are suspected of breaking those laws they should also be investigated.

Do you think that abuses of power which result in the violation of laws are the only kinds of abuses of power that matter?

Of course not. I didn't imply that anywhere. I stated that Google is potentially breaking the law so should be investigated and offered some alternatives I use which suit my needs better.

Re: Europe Is Going After Google Hard, and Google May Not Win

#82

Post by jshevek »

k-mcgrady wrote: post #81
jshevek wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you think that abuses of power which result in the violation of laws are the only kinds of abuses of power that matter?

Of course not. I didn't imply that anywhere. I stated that Google is potentially breaking the law so should be investigated and offered some alternatives I use which suit my needs better.

Maybe the initial point you meant to make was related more to 'breaking the law' rather than 'abusing their power', but the phrasing you used focused on the abuse of power rather than the law. This can be taken to imply that you care about the abuse of power itself (rather than merely possible violations of law)

Apple and Amazon (like most companies their size) have well established histories of abusing their power, so I found it odd that you would explicitly mention their products as alternatives in the very same sentence in which you appear to criticise the abuse of power.

Re: Europe Is Going After Google Hard, and Google May Not Win

#83

Post by dingaling »

jshevek wrote: post #70
raverbashing wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Are Europeans not upset that they're being forced into sub-standard foreign technology by their government Oh you're so funny. As opposed to the US where people overpay for sub-standard local technology? People in the US still use cheques . And they have to pay (a lot) to print those. Chip cards? No, let's use our fraud-prone magnetic stripe cards. It's cheaper for me to call the US using an MVNO from Europe than p…

> People in the US still use cheques. And they have to pay (a lot) to print those. US citizen, and I haven't used a single cheque in over a decade. The actual costs of printing cheque are negligible, and every bank and CU I've used gives them to customers for free.

Printing is cheap, but processing the cheques at the other end is expensive; about 70 cents each and that was with a system that scanned them at point of receipt and converted it to ACH.

Re: Europe Is Going After Google Hard, and Google May Not Win

#84

Post by rbehrends »

criley2 wrote: post #7

Is anyone surprised that Google didn't come from Europe, and the next one isn't either? Good for Europe. Go out there and extract that pound of flesh from the foreign company and show domestics what a powerful government regulator looks like, show them that their business is better started in another country. Is what it is. Hope the tax revenue offsets the lack of innovation and talent flight. But I think Google News…

> Are Europeans not upset that they're being forced into sub-standard foreign technology by their government for which they have no superior domestic alternative, also suppressing domestic innovation as innovators seek greener regulatory pasture, all in the name of today's tax revenue?

A regulatory race to the bottom benefits nobody [1]. Europe has plenty of experience with monopolies and cartels abusing their political and economic power.

I frankly would be more worried about US antitrust law abandoning competition as its guiding principle [2]. Which doesn't mean that everything in Europe is hunky-dory, but Google primary trouble stems from allegations that it is abusing a dominant market position. If that is true, then the EU is completely in the right to smack it down; the short-term benefits of allowing such behavior to persist are more than offset by the long-term downsides.

Keep also in mind that Google – or other American companies – are not being singled out here. European giants such as Siemens and Phillips had to eat major antitrust fines as well.

[1] I am not counting local stupidities such as ancillary copyright laws in Germany and Spain. That wasn't regulators running wild, that was legislatures enacting broken domestic laws at the behest of lobbyists.

[2] https://newrepublic.com/article/131412/important-2016-issue-...

Re: Europe Is Going After Google Hard, and Google May Not Win

#85

Post by dragonwriter »

EliRivers wrote: post #25
criley2 wrote: post #7

Is anyone surprised that Google didn't come from Europe, and the next one isn't either? Good for Europe. Go out there and extract that pound of flesh from the foreign company and show domestics what a powerful government regulator looks like, show them that their business is better started in another country. Is what it is. Hope the tax revenue offsets the lack of innovation and talent flight. But I think Google News…

all in the name of today's tax revenue? The article doesn't mention tax.

Yeah, this is an antitrust case. There are some European countries with active tax-related investigations of Google, but those are completely separate from this case.

Re: Europe Is Going After Google Hard, and Google May Not Win

#86

Post by dragonwriter »

Shivetya wrote: post #3

I am not a fan of the "Right to be forgotten" but I am an even less happy with the idea that just because they are so good are providing searching that somehow they aren't allowed to favor their own interests. Are we to treat them as a utility or such simply because they spent the time and effort to become so good?

In antitrust law pretty much everywhere, including the US, achieving a certain degree of dominance in a market makes anticompetitive actions which would otherwise be legal become illegal for you in order to prevent leverage dominance in one market to prevent free competition in another market. The details vary by jurisdiction, of course, but this, in broad outline, is not a difference between the US and EU.

Re: Europe Is Going After Google Hard, and Google May Not Win

#87

Post by k-mcgrady »

jshevek wrote: post #82
k-mcgrady wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Of course not. I didn't imply that anywhere. I stated that Google is potentially breaking the law so should be investigated and offered some alternatives I use which suit my needs better.

Maybe the initial point you meant to make was related more to 'breaking the law' rather than 'abusing their power', but the phrasing you used focused on the abuse of power rather than the law. This can be taken to imply that you care about the abuse of power itself (rather than merely possible violations of law) Apple and Amazon (like most companies their size) have well established histories of abusing their power,…

I meant 'abusing their power' in the sense of a monopoly using their power to kill competition before it has a chance.

Re: Europe Is Going After Google Hard, and Google May Not Win

#88

Post by steanne »

unfathomable wrote: post #79
dannysu wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

GMail is super easy to replace. I use FastMail and love it. Google search is a bit harder. I use DDG by default but will still use Google sometimes.

Have you given startpage a try?

startpage gets their data from google.

Re: Europe Is Going After Google Hard, and Google May Not Win

#89

Post by toomuchtodo »

drakonandor wrote: post #77
k-mcgrady wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> "Are Europeans not upset" I'm happy the regulators are not allowing a huge multi-national business to abuse its power. I'm happy that, to some extent, regulators are trying to make sure large foreign tech companies respect my privacy. If that means we lose Google I think you're overestimating how big of a deal that would be. I use DDG for search, iCloud for email/calendar/contacts, Safari as my desktop browser, BB…

Are you also happy having to pay for services like Google Maps, which everyone else can get for free - because some French Maps company thinks it's unfair they can't make as much money as Google can? https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2012/feb/03/google-fi... If so, enjoy getting nickled and dimed for literally everything in the future.

OpenStreetMap is at parity with Google Maps.

EDIT: Don't make it sound like we should allow for-profit companies to hold us hostage.

Re: Europe Is Going After Google Hard, and Google May Not Win

#90

Post by y0ghur7_xxx »

doktrin wrote: post #78
y0ghur7_xxx wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What could gmail possibly give me that a server with postfix, dovecot and roundcube can not?

I'm honestly not sure if you're being sarcastic :(

I'm serious. I have a gmail account for spam signups, and i log in sometimes, but I didn't find anything that it gives me over my setup.

The only thing I can think of is the initial setup I had to do to get everything done, but that's a few hours of work and it's here now. Using it for years without having to do anything. Some friends of mine use it, and my family, and nobody complains. Ever.

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