Europe Is Going After Google Hard, and Google May Not Win • Hacker News Board

Re: Europe Is Going After Google Hard, and Google May Not Win

#51

Post by fauigerzigerk » Fri, Jul 15, 2016, 3:25 PM UTC

criley2 wrote: post #7

Is anyone surprised that Google didn't come from Europe, and the next one isn't either? Good for Europe. Go out there and extract that pound of flesh from the foreign company and show domestics what a powerful government regulator looks like, show them that their business is better started in another country. Is what it is. Hope the tax revenue offsets the lack of innovation and talent flight. But I think Google News…

I think there's a bit of a selection bias at play here. US media likes to report on cases involving US companies. That's only natural.

But it means that you're not getting the full picture when it comes to the actions of EU competition authorities. How do you know whether or not US conglomerates are specifically targetted if you know next to nothing about their other rulings?

That said, I also think that competition policy is mostly misguided (and not just in Europe). It's ineffective and they often try to fix things that fix themselves over time anyway. Browser choice on Windows? Was that really something that needed regulators to step in? I don't think so.

But there are other areas where I think Europe is right to take a harder line. Privacy is one of those things. I actually want services that only work if they can spy on everyone completely unimpeded to be sub-standard.

Re: Europe Is Going After Google Hard, and Google May Not Win

#52

Post by JoeAltmaier » Fri, Jul 15, 2016, 3:26 PM UTC

k-mcgrady wrote: post #46

fhood wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wait wut? First my cheques are free, and the only time I really use them is when somebody needs by account info on file. Second I have a chip card and I hate it. Third, you're right. US telecom blows. Fourth I hate to break it to you but talent really does flock to the US from europe and elsewhere and many of our greatest scientists and entrepreneurs are from abroad. Hell, Elon Musk is South African. That is the resu…

>> Second I have a chip card and I hate it." Why? A bit more info would be useful.

They don't work everywhere (just give 'declined' when swiped which can be embarrassing) and they're definitely slower, as they contact the mother ship on every transaction.

Re: Europe Is Going After Google Hard, and Google May Not Win

#53

Post by fauigerzigerk » Fri, Jul 15, 2016, 3:28 PM UTC

criley2 wrote: post #7

Is anyone surprised that Google didn't come from Europe, and the next one isn't either? Good for Europe. Go out there and extract that pound of flesh from the foreign company and show domestics what a powerful government regulator looks like, show them that their business is better started in another country. Is what it is. Hope the tax revenue offsets the lack of innovation and talent flight. But I think Google News…

Which sub-standard technology are we being forced into?

The EU claims that Google with its >90% search market share bundles/prefers its own sub-standard comparison shopping service to displace better ones.

I can't say I know enough about the matter to tell if the allegations are true. But the EU's case has nothing to do with forcing sub-standard technologies on anyone. On the contrary.

Re: Europe Is Going After Google Hard, and Google May Not Win

#54

Post by k-mcgrady » Fri, Jul 15, 2016, 3:35 PM UTC

doktrin wrote: post #48

k-mcgrady wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> Second I have a chip card and I hate it." Why? A bit more info would be useful.

Probably because it's slightly slower to use than magnetic strips (at least in the US), and since we're in a transition period you kind of never know whether a given store supports chip inserts.

Good points but that's not really a problem with the chip and pin tech. The parents comments sounded like he had a specific issue with that. Regarding speed I'm not too familiar with magnetic strip cards but don't you have to sign the receipt? If so that seems like it would take as long as entering a PIN. Also, do magnetic strips support contactless payments? The chip and PIN cards in the UK do which makes payments almost instant (up to £30).

Re: Europe Is Going After Google Hard, and Google May Not Win

#55

Post by dannysu » Fri, Jul 15, 2016, 3:41 PM UTC

fhood wrote: post #38

k-mcgrady wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> "Are Europeans not upset" I'm happy the regulators are not allowing a huge multi-national business to abuse its power. I'm happy that, to some extent, regulators are trying to make sure large foreign tech companies respect my privacy. If that means we lose Google I think you're overestimating how big of a deal that would be. I use DDG for search, iCloud for email/calendar/contacts, Safari as my desktop browser, BB…

Wait you don't use google for searching?!?!?! Or gmail? I am in awe.

GMail is super easy to replace. I use FastMail and love it.

Google search is a bit harder. I use DDG by default but will still use Google sometimes.

Re: Europe Is Going After Google Hard, and Google May Not Win

#56

Post by snuxoll » Fri, Jul 15, 2016, 3:47 PM UTC

k-mcgrady wrote: post #54

doktrin wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Probably because it's slightly slower to use than magnetic strips (at least in the US), and since we're in a transition period you kind of never know whether a given store supports chip inserts.

Good points but that's not really a problem with the chip and pin tech. The parents comments sounded like he had a specific issue with that. Regarding speed I'm not too familiar with magnetic strip cards but don't you have to sign the receipt? If so that seems like it would take as long as entering a PIN. Also, do magnetic strips support contactless payments? The chip and PIN cards in the UK do which makes payments a…

We didn't do Chip+PIN in the US, we did Chip+Sign for everything but debit cards (which still use signatures in most cases as a lot of stores don't have support for the US Common Debit AID, yet). No, virtually nobody supports contactless on cards themselves, if you want that you're stuck with Apple Pay / Android Pay / Microsoft Wallet and having to use your phone or watch.

Our EMV rollout in the US was awful, the software running on card terminals is abysmally slow to authenticate transactions (taking upwards of 15 seconds in some cases), while traditional magnetic strips took maybe 2 or 3 to authorize. This is fixable, and multiple vendors in the chain have been providing fixes that drop the authentication+authorization time back down to the 3 second window, but it's going to take a while for it to get rolled out now that it's almost a full year after the big switch.

Re: Europe Is Going After Google Hard, and Google May Not Win

#57

Post by bitmapbrother » Fri, Jul 15, 2016, 3:48 PM UTC

raverbashing wrote: post #21

criley2 wrote: post #7

Is anyone surprised that Google didn't come from Europe, and the next one isn't either? Good for Europe. Go out there and extract that pound of flesh from the foreign company and show domestics what a powerful government regulator looks like, show them that their business is better started in another country. Is what it is. Hope the tax revenue offsets the lack of innovation and talent flight. But I think Google News…

> Are Europeans not upset that they're being forced into sub-standard foreign technology by their government Oh you're so funny. As opposed to the US where people overpay for sub-standard local technology? People in the US still use cheques . And they have to pay (a lot) to print those. Chip cards? No, let's use our fraud-prone magnetic stripe cards. It's cheaper for me to call the US using an MVNO from Europe than p…

>Oh you're so funny. As opposed to the US where people overpay for sub-standard local technology?

That's so cute. Does your high income tax pay for all of that above standard local technology?

>People in the US still use cheques. And they have to pay (a lot) to print those.

Anecdotal, but I've rarely seen anyone pay by cheque.

>Chip cards? No, let's use our fraud-prone magnetic stripe cards.

Yes, because chip cards are so infallible.

>It's cheaper for me to call the US using an MVNO from Europe than picking up a phone and calling the US from within with a pre-paid cell phone there.

Surprising. Care to list some prices?

Re: Europe Is Going After Google Hard, and Google May Not Win

#58

Post by fhood » Fri, Jul 15, 2016, 3:49 PM UTC

k-mcgrady wrote: post #46

fhood wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wait wut? First my cheques are free, and the only time I really use them is when somebody needs by account info on file. Second I have a chip card and I hate it. Third, you're right. US telecom blows. Fourth I hate to break it to you but talent really does flock to the US from europe and elsewhere and many of our greatest scientists and entrepreneurs are from abroad. Hell, Elon Musk is South African. That is the resu…

>> Second I have a chip card and I hate it." Why? A bit more info would be useful.

Everybody in the comments correctly guessed my gripes. My least favorite thing is that I can't swipe if there is an option to use the chip.

Re: Europe Is Going After Google Hard, and Google May Not Win

#59

Post by snuxoll » Fri, Jul 15, 2016, 3:51 PM UTC

kyrra wrote: post #49

raverbashing wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Are Europeans not upset that they're being forced into sub-standard foreign technology by their government Oh you're so funny. As opposed to the US where people overpay for sub-standard local technology? People in the US still use cheques . And they have to pay (a lot) to print those. Chip cards? No, let's use our fraud-prone magnetic stripe cards. It's cheaper for me to call the US using an MVNO from Europe than p…

About chip cards: Do you know why the US hasn't cared much about chip cards? The fraud rate is low enough that credit card companies don't need to push it. Chip+pin or chip+sign slows down the process and adds extra barriers to payments. Plus, you (as a consumer) are only liable for up to $50 of fraudulent charges in the US (it's higher if you are slow to report). But most credit card companies don't make you pay any…

To me Chip cards are a much bigger issue for debit cards. I have fraud protection on my bank account, but it can still take the bank up to a month or more if they want before putting stolen money back in my account. Once everyone rolls out EMV-enabled ATM's and POS terminals someone can steal my magstripe data all they want, they won't be able to draw money from my checking account. Of course, this is why I use credit cards for 99% of my purchases, and I typically go into a branch if I need to withdraw money (assuming they are open), but it's a really annoying threat to have to be on the lookout for.

Re: Europe Is Going After Google Hard, and Google May Not Win

#60

Post by fhood » Fri, Jul 15, 2016, 3:52 PM UTC

mercutio2 wrote: post #47

fhood wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wait you don't use google for searching?!?!?! Or gmail? I am in awe.

I'm always amazed by people with your perspective! I hated Gmail from the beginning, it works terribly with IMAP, and it's generally slow compared to a good native app. Google search is still occasionally better than DDG, but it's never more than an !g away if I'm unhappy with DDG. What are all these services Google provides people feel are irreplaceable? I don't get it. They're an advertising company with big bags o…

As far as gmail goes, I don't know if it is now widespread, but one day my gmail suddenly had different tabs for primary, social media, promotions, updates, and forums, and it changed my life. I hate using other mail apps that don't do that. Can't ever find anything.