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Interns Get Fired En Masse After Protesting Dress Code at Work

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Re: Interns Get Fired En Masse After Protesting Dress Code at Work

#81

Post by dogma1138 »

StavrosK wrote: post #54
masklinn wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Maybe the other employee had a health issue They did, they had lost a leg, which the interns didn't know beforehand. > management didn't want to share that private information? Except they shared that information… after firing all the interns: > We were told to hand in our ID badges and to gather our things and leave the property ASAP. […] just before the meeting ended, one of the managers told us that the worker w…

Ah, right, I didn't read this article (I read the one that was on the front page again earlier today). I think the interns were excessive in making a petition just for changing the dress code, because that can be interpreted as a hostile move, and the company was excessive in firing them, because that's tyrannical and destroys morale. Pretty much everyone involved here was being a dick.

How's the company was excessive? this is the only thing you can do really in this case. She talked to her manager and was stricken down, then she decided to make a petition in order to bully her bosses? She knew exactly what she was doing "oh I don't have much experience in the work force" ehm yeah I'm pretty sure everyone has at least limited understanding of how management works - it's not a democracy, you don't get want you want and you especially don't get it by forcing the hands of your employers.

So no not everyone involved here was a dick, there was a brat on one side that decided to effectively unionize the internets over shoes and a company that would not be able to function if a petition means that employees not to mention interns get whatever they want.

Day 1 - petition for shoes. Day 3 - petition for bagels. Day 7 - ????

Re: Interns Get Fired En Masse After Protesting Dress Code at Work

#82

Post by [deleted] »

StavrosK wrote: post #54
masklinn wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Maybe the other employee had a health issue They did, they had lost a leg, which the interns didn't know beforehand. > management didn't want to share that private information? Except they shared that information… after firing all the interns: > We were told to hand in our ID badges and to gather our things and leave the property ASAP. […] just before the meeting ended, one of the managers told us that the worker w…

Ah, right, I didn't read this article (I read the one that was on the front page again earlier today). I think the interns were excessive in making a petition just for changing the dress code, because that can be interpreted as a hostile move, and the company was excessive in firing them, because that's tyrannical and destroys morale. Pretty much everyone involved here was being a dick.

[deleted]

Re: Interns Get Fired En Masse After Protesting Dress Code at Work

#83

Post by dogma1138 »

enkitosh wrote: post #71

I'm really surprised how many people in the comment section of this article defend the facist acts of this company. As if controlling how you dress is not a big deal, it's actually a very big deal. "Welcome to the real world kid", indicating this is somewhat a childish behaviour. Well if this is the real world it needs to be told that this is not acceptable. So I'm a programmer and a transvestite meaning that yes I l…

Fascist? really, have you ever lived under fascism or dictatorship?

This is welcome to the real world kid, infact this should never have happened I don't understand how would anyone over 12 would think that a petition at your workplace could or should work.

You don't know what circumstances was she working at, you don't know why they were ordered to wear dress clothes (uniforms are pretty damn good for instilling discipline). Now I understand you situation and you also need to understand that not everyone has to be accepting of your situation including your employer this is perfectly acceptable without being discriminatory. You work as a programmer which means that you can wear pretty much what you want as long as you do not meet business clients or customers but not everyone else is in the same position as you. Some employees end up handling people, some of them just end up being in sight of customers, I don't care what you wear when you code something in a cubicle, but I don't want the worker in a funeral home wearing some crap, or my lawyer in a courtroom.

And you are right the company you work for does not own you, but the same goes the other way, it does not owe you anything either. It provides you with an environment in which you can trade your time for pay under a set of agreed circumstances if you do not agree to follow those guidelines you can find another place that allows you to trade your time for money under more palatable or acceptable terms.

So yes this has everything to do with "millennials" or well considering that I am one, entitlement and more like it than not way too many years of pampering by her parents and the educational system that had it's balance of power turned upside down that led her to believe she can just do everything if she signs a petition no matter how passive aggressive her behaviour is in reality.

But overall good for you for not accepting anyone to have an effect on your appearance but with all due respect that's your personal choice you can't claim it to be more important than the company you might work for one day wanting to present a specific image of it's employees that conflicts with your own personal dress code. At that moment you'll have a choice how much does your external look and what you wear affect who you actually are, if they are that big part of your life that you can't simply change it well then you are at an impasse but please don't make it to be that you somehow are better than a company that has a dress code when you have one too.

Re: Interns Get Fired En Masse After Protesting Dress Code at Work

#84

Post by GrumpyYoungMan »

anu7df wrote: post #14

Is there possibly more to this story? As it stands it looks like the interns made a polite request and fired for it. I understand the "intern is a guest" argument, but he/she is also a future employee playing that part and would like to be treated as such. If any polite request is countered by firing I can't imagine that will be a good place to work.

The askmanager.com post linked from the article has more details from one of the interns who organized the petition:

http://www.askamanager.org/2016/06/i-was-fired-from-my-inter...

With the facts given, both the advice columnist and commenters don't seem to be particularly sympathetic to the interns.

Re: Interns Get Fired En Masse After Protesting Dress Code at Work

#85

Post by enkitosh »

dogma1138 wrote: post #83
enkitosh wrote: post #71

I'm really surprised how many people in the comment section of this article defend the facist acts of this company. As if controlling how you dress is not a big deal, it's actually a very big deal. "Welcome to the real world kid", indicating this is somewhat a childish behaviour. Well if this is the real world it needs to be told that this is not acceptable. So I'm a programmer and a transvestite meaning that yes I l…

Fascist? really, have you ever lived under fascism or dictatorship? This is welcome to the real world kid, infact this should never have happened I don't understand how would anyone over 12 would think that a petition at your workplace could or should work. You don't know what circumstances was she working at, you don't know why they were ordered to wear dress clothes (uniforms are pretty damn good for instilling dis…

Did you even read my comment? I said "Especially if you do not have to deal with customers (of course I understand that companies can have rules when their employees are facing customers that's a totally different story)"

And I mean that, it is a totally different story. If employees have to face customers then it's up to the company to decide what kind of image they want to display. The interns in thin case were not working with customers directly.

"you can't claim it to be more important than the company you might work for one day wanting to present a specific image of it's employees that conflicts with your own personal dress code"

Yes I can, and I do. If I'm not working with customers directly the company should have no impact on my appearance. And this isn't about me thinking I'm better than the company, this is about mutual respect. I show my company respect by showing up to work each day and providing the work expected of me.

And if you really want to make this about millennials then yeah millennials are just realising how much bullshit things such as a dress code at work is. I said fascist because the suppression of expression is a fascist tendency.

Re: Interns Get Fired En Masse After Protesting Dress Code at Work

#86

Post by emn13 »

raverbashing wrote: post #70
throwanem wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And, conversely, interns' labor has minimal value (sometimes none), so it's not as though the pay scale's unfair. You don't sign up for the college + internship track without expecting to give away some labor.

> interns' labor has minimal value (sometimes none) I find it very hard to believe they are doing nothing of value whatsoever. Really hard Not paying interns seems to be a USA thing though. As an intern I worked with C software, both in Linux and Windows, of course I had less experience and needed "more" supervision, but it was far from worthless. My code ended up in actual products sold by the company. And yes, I wa…

Interns cost money by requiring training and a place to work, and by being a distraction. I bet interns bring value, but depending on the kind of work it may well be that the value they bring would have cost an experienced employee less time to realize than they spent bringing the intern up to speed.

There are lots of intangible benefits too, but I can well imagine that in a straightforward reckoning the net value is close to zero, especially for short internships.

Re: Interns Get Fired En Masse After Protesting Dress Code at Work

#87

Post by ethanbond »

cddotdotslash wrote: post #67
raverbashing wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> demanding change at a place that was generous enough to hire them for a learning experience Oh what a load of crap Generous? Companies use interns for cheap labour (sometimes free). There's nothing generous from their part

Perhaps you interned at the wrong places, but every internship I've had not only paid me well, but also taught me more real-world skills than I learned during my four-year degree. The world is not black and white; just because some companies use interns as cheap labor doesn't mean that's always the case.

To be fair, a place that fires interns for writing a petition about a dress code probably falls squarely in the camp of "exploiting cheap/free labor" rather than "well paying and educational career opportunity" camp.

Re: Interns Get Fired En Masse After Protesting Dress Code at Work

#88

Post by ethanbond »

throwanem wrote: post #31

I've never understood the mindset in which something as trivial as what you wear to work actually seems like a big deal.

It's probably a mindset unique to people who have to wear uncomfortable clothes 12 hours a day to fetch coffee for their abusive superiors.

Re: Interns Get Fired En Masse After Protesting Dress Code at Work

#89

Post by StavrosK »

dogma1138 wrote: post #81
StavrosK wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ah, right, I didn't read this article (I read the one that was on the front page again earlier today). I think the interns were excessive in making a petition just for changing the dress code, because that can be interpreted as a hostile move, and the company was excessive in firing them, because that's tyrannical and destroys morale. Pretty much everyone involved here was being a dick.

How's the company was excessive? this is the only thing you can do really in this case. She talked to her manager and was stricken down, then she decided to make a petition in order to bully her bosses? She knew exactly what she was doing "oh I don't have much experience in the work force" ehm yeah I'm pretty sure everyone has at least limited understanding of how management works - it's not a democracy, you don't ge…

Because it's not reasonable for a company to fire people who unionize. They could have just said "again, no, you have to follow the dress code".

Re: Interns Get Fired En Masse After Protesting Dress Code at Work

#90

Post by notacoward »

empthought wrote: post #28
anu7df wrote: post #14

Is there possibly more to this story? As it stands it looks like the interns made a polite request and fired for it. I understand the "intern is a guest" argument, but he/she is also a future employee playing that part and would like to be treated as such. If any polite request is countered by firing I can't imagine that will be a good place to work.

Individual polite requests would likely have been denied without the firing. However, the group participated in collective action, which many employers simply cannot tolerate, whether it's about dress codes, compensation, working conditions, or anything else.

> However, the group participated in collective action

That's the key. The actual issue at hand probably didn't matter as much as the fact that the lowest of the low had figured out how to work together outside the official hierarchy. That made it a threat not to policy, not even to the people who could have simply said yes or no, but to the hierarchy itself. What happens when you attack the hierarchy? Scorched earth, baby.

Yes, it was a bit entitled of the interns to expect a change in the dress code. A simple "no" would have sufficed if that were the real issue, but it wasn't.

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