Interns Get Fired En Masse After Protesting Dress Code at Work • Hacker News Board

Re: Interns Get Fired En Masse After Protesting Dress Code at Work

#41

Post by raverbashing » Sat, Jul 02, 2016, 1:58 PM UTC

cddotdotslash wrote: post #24

anu7df wrote: post #14

Is there possibly more to this story? As it stands it looks like the interns made a polite request and fired for it. I understand the "intern is a guest" argument, but he/she is also a future employee playing that part and would like to be treated as such. If any polite request is countered by firing I can't imagine that will be a good place to work.

A polite request is asking their respective managers about the dress code and whether it can be relaxed. Creating a petition, circling it among the entire intern group, and essentially demanding change at a place that was generous enough to hire them for a learning experience is not a polite request. I interned at four separate companies when I was younger. I would have never even conceived the idea of doing somethin…

> demanding change at a place that was generous enough to hire them for a learning experience

Oh what a load of crap

Generous? Companies use interns for cheap labour (sometimes free). There's nothing generous from their part

Re: Interns Get Fired En Masse After Protesting Dress Code at Work

#42

Post by k__ » Sat, Jul 02, 2016, 1:58 PM UTC

empthought wrote: post #28

anu7df wrote: post #14

Is there possibly more to this story? As it stands it looks like the interns made a polite request and fired for it. I understand the "intern is a guest" argument, but he/she is also a future employee playing that part and would like to be treated as such. If any polite request is countered by firing I can't imagine that will be a good place to work.

Individual polite requests would likely have been denied without the firing. However, the group participated in collective action, which many employers simply cannot tolerate, whether it's about dress codes, compensation, working conditions, or anything else.

you mean "simply will not tolerate"

if companies fear the actions of their employees, why hire them in the first place.

Sounds like an abusive relationship to me

Re: Interns Get Fired En Masse After Protesting Dress Code at Work

#43

Post by travmatt » Sat, Jul 02, 2016, 1:59 PM UTC

StavrosK wrote: post #34

masklinn wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> A polite request is asking their respective managers about the dress code and whether it can be relaxed Which, according to the original source, is exactly what they did with the supporting argument that at least one employee didn't follow dress code, resulting in them being shut down with no answer: > I felt the dress code was overly strict but I wasn’t going to say anything, until I noticed one of the workers alw…

Maybe the other employee had a health issue that prevented them from wearing dress shoes, and management didn't want to share that private information? It definitely sounds like management would prefer to force the lone employee to follow dress code than to allow everyone else to break it.

The article mentions the other employee is a military veteran and amputee who is more comfortable outside the strict dress code.

An intern decided they were going to try and force a companies hand and was fired. Not much to see here.

Re: Interns Get Fired En Masse After Protesting Dress Code at Work

#44

Post by StavrosK » Sat, Jul 02, 2016, 1:59 PM UTC

masklinn wrote: post #36

Houshalter wrote: post #26

According to the article they didn't even disobey the dress code, or cause any real commotion. They just sent a letter just asking for a rule to be changed slightly for practical reasons. Is it really ethical to fire an entire group of people for merely questioning a rule? Is this really evidence they are "entitled" as comments here are saying? Perhaps the letter was worded very rudely?

> Is it really ethical to fire an entire group of people for merely questioning a rule? Corporate America doesn't concern itself with ethics. Interns sending a common proposal (however polite) up the management chain is one step removed from unionisation, which is one thing Corporate America will shut down sites or states over.

You've gotten downvoted because of the tone of your comment, but I think the argument you're making is sound. The US work culture is very much against employees' rights, and expressing yourself is a right. They didn't stop working, they didn't harm anything, they just sent a letter that said "hey, these 10 people want X" and they got fired over it.

Re: Interns Get Fired En Masse After Protesting Dress Code at Work

#45

Post by dleslie » Sat, Jul 02, 2016, 1:59 PM UTC

havella wrote: post #35

The key here is signaling. The interns showed that either they don't understand the game or that the have an 'union' like attitude towards employment. Either way not atractive for an employer.

And the employer made themselves unattractive to a socially-connected group.

Re: Interns Get Fired En Masse After Protesting Dress Code at Work

#46

Post by olau » Sat, Jul 02, 2016, 1:59 PM UTC

throwanem wrote: post #31

I've never understood the mindset in which something as trivial as what you wear to work actually seems like a big deal.

Can't remember if it's Seven Day Weekend or Peopleware were they talk about the furniture police. I don't understand it either. I think some people find it threatening that the employees are actually human, silly as it sounds.

Re: Interns Get Fired En Masse After Protesting Dress Code at Work

#47

Post by GrumpyYoungMan » Sat, Jul 02, 2016, 2:00 PM UTC

masklinn wrote: post #12

dingo_bat wrote: post #2

I think they shouldn't have complained about something that everyone was following, and a formal code is not very uncommon. I also think that firing everyone point blank just because they wrote a letter is an extreme overreaction. They could have been lectured on professional behavior instead and I'm sure most of them would have understood.

> I think they shouldn't have complained about something that everyone was following > they weren’t going to complain. That is, “until I noticed one of the workers always wore flat shoes that were made from a fabric other than leather, or running shoes, even though both of these things were contrary to the dress code.” The interns were told that was a medical exemption… after they were mass-fired, but not when they i…

>The interns were told that was a medical exemption… after they were mass-fired, but not when they initially inquired about the possibility of relaxed dress code:

People do have a right to privacy. The person with a medical issue may have asked that details not be disclosed to his/her co-workers.

The questionable part of this story might not be that the interns were terminated but that the existence of the medical issue was disclosed to them at all.

Re: Interns Get Fired En Masse After Protesting Dress Code at Work

#48

Post by raverbashing » Sat, Jul 02, 2016, 2:00 PM UTC

yesiamyourdad wrote: post #17

jrowley wrote: post #6

I got a job recently that requires business formal dress code. It's was a little frustrating until I read somewhere that by wearing dress clothes your are allowing yourself to kind of be branded by the company and in that way I appreciated it because it allows me to partition my identity into work and nonwork. Part of me still thinks I'd be more productive and happier in my normal street clothes though.

My first couple jobs required dress pants, a long sleeve button down shirt, and a tie. Back then "casual friday" was a real thing, you could wear a polo and khakis. These days unless you're an attorney or in finance, nobody wears a suit. I work at a place that has a dress code that harks back to the early 90s. After spending my 20's griping about dress codes, I actually enjoy it for the same reason: it's a physical r…

> I'm curious - how would you be more productive in casual wear?

Usually by taking less time to dress up and having better thermal comfort (especially in places that don't have air conditioning - yes, these exist)

Re: Interns Get Fired En Masse After Protesting Dress Code at Work

#49

Post by HarryHirsch » Sat, Jul 02, 2016, 2:01 PM UTC

jrowley wrote: post #6

I got a job recently that requires business formal dress code. It's was a little frustrating until I read somewhere that by wearing dress clothes your are allowing yourself to kind of be branded by the company and in that way I appreciated it because it allows me to partition my identity into work and nonwork. Part of me still thinks I'd be more productive and happier in my normal street clothes though.

by wearing dress clothes your are allowing yourself to kind of be branded by the company

Kind of like the Scouts, or priests, or soldiers? That's a good theory. All these groups do proper onboarding, though. You'd ask yourself what happened to the manager who let that batch of interns run loose. If it's East Coast finance you'd think he'd be up for culling next, in that line of work there is much indoctrination and elite-think, and the unit manager completely failed to impress on the interns just what a god-blessed lot they are to have gotten into the Company while still at school.

Re: Interns Get Fired En Masse After Protesting Dress Code at Work

#50

Post by throwanem » Sat, Jul 02, 2016, 2:01 PM UTC

raverbashing wrote: post #41

cddotdotslash wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A polite request is asking their respective managers about the dress code and whether it can be relaxed. Creating a petition, circling it among the entire intern group, and essentially demanding change at a place that was generous enough to hire them for a learning experience is not a polite request. I interned at four separate companies when I was younger. I would have never even conceived the idea of doing somethin…

> demanding change at a place that was generous enough to hire them for a learning experience Oh what a load of crap Generous? Companies use interns for cheap labour (sometimes free). There's nothing generous from their part

And, conversely, interns' labor has minimal value (sometimes none), so it's not as though the pay scale's unfair. You don't sign up for the college + internship track without expecting to give away some labor.