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Ireland to 'decriminalise' small amounts of drugs for personal use

independent.co.uk

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Re: Ireland to 'decriminalise' small amounts of drugs for personal use

#81

Post by moonchrome »

zanny wrote: post #67
hodder wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"And of course once you've legalized the selling of marijuana, you're potentially openings the doors for other substances" I agree you've got to start somewhere. I find the argument that marijuana is a door opener to other substances is flawed though. If pot didn't exist, would the same argument be made for liquor stores, tobacco sales, coffee shops, red bulls at 7/11, cough medicine at Walmart etc? Or is it just bec…

Tobacco and alcohol are legal and used because they were staples of the founding of the US. Tobacco was one of the chief exports of the colonies and the new US for centuries and made a lot of people rich and even more people happy. Alcohol is legal in almost every country on Earth because you can make it out of almost everything. What might end up happening is regional fermentation variants are stigmatized. Cannibis…

>cocaine are probably the only outstandingly dangerous ones due to immediate bodily effects

Is that true about ? I "know" that heroin ends up causing a physical addiction + all the risks with the way it's used but I was under the impression that cocaine was in the same category as speed/extasy in terms of downsides.

Re: Ireland to 'decriminalise' small amounts of drugs for personal use

#82

Post by swimfar »

tn13 wrote: post #63
iamcurious wrote: post #26

It is a step in the right direction, but it still half-baked. Without decriminalizing production as well, they are maintaining a monopoly for those that works outside of the law. Which means a very profitable tax free market that has to recreate all of the state features like physical safety and insurance policies from scratch. Every nation that forbids something that is in demand, is gestating its own competition. T…

Socialist revolutions happen overnight but capitalist changes need to happen over time. In case of India it took 50 years for the government to realize that it is nonsensical to restrict how many nut bolts a factory could produce.

What is that a reference to?

Re: Ireland to 'decriminalise' small amounts of drugs for personal use

#83

Post by aburan28 »

llamataboot wrote: post #77
zanny wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tobacco and alcohol are legal and used because they were staples of the founding of the US. Tobacco was one of the chief exports of the colonies and the new US for centuries and made a lot of people rich and even more people happy. Alcohol is legal in almost every country on Earth because you can make it out of almost everything. What might end up happening is regional fermentation variants are stigmatized. Cannibis…

MDMA and LSD also have medical applications. http://www.maps.org/

They do show some promise in the unfortunately limited research done but it is nearly impossible to conduct legal research on the medicinal potential of highly controlled substances

Re: Ireland to 'decriminalise' small amounts of drugs for personal use

#85

Post by bcook »

aianus wrote: post #75
bcook wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drug_harmfulness Notice that heroin is the worst, both personally and socially. This is well established. Also, I would not use popular media as the basis for any sound argument. :( Herion junkies lead a functional life including work and family? Seriously, what the fuck?! Cite just one source that heroin addiction is controllable because the addict uses "clean" heroin. Heroin addictio…

> Herion junkies lead a functional life including work and family? Seriously, what the fuck?! Cite just one source that heroin addiction is controllable because the addict uses "clean" heroin. There are countless rock stars, for example, that maintained families and highly successful careers while regularly using heroin. > Heroin addiction is the problem, not the adulterants, so purity is unimportant. Heroin addictio…

Anecdotes are not a valid citation.

Heroin is the most harmful drug, statistically, according to numerous studies.

Re: Ireland to 'decriminalise' small amounts of drugs for personal use

#86

Post by bcook »

hoodoof wrote: post #78
bcook wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drug_harmfulness Notice that heroin is the worst, both personally and socially. This is well established. Also, I would not use popular media as the basis for any sound argument. :( Herion junkies lead a functional life including work and family? Seriously, what the fuck?! Cite just one source that heroin addiction is controllable because the addict uses "clean" heroin. Heroin addictio…

Just one link after 10 second Google search: Fentanyl-linked heroin deaths part of larger drug overdose trend http://articles.baltimoresun.com/2014-02-08/news/bs-md-sun-i...

How is that a citation proving that heroin is controllable if only the heroin was pure? Overdoses happen even with pure heroin.

Also, I assumed "citation" would infer that a reputable book or scholarly white paper should be referenced, not a very short newspaper article.

Though, we both seem to be unwavering in our views, so I am cool with stopping this back and forth. :)

Re: Ireland to 'decriminalise' small amounts of drugs for personal use

#87

Post by tonyarkles »

alexqgb wrote: post #51
stephengillie wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But first we have to mollify the masses that the decades of War-On-Drugs FUD is untrue. Show them that drug users are fellow humans, and easier access to the tools they use to generate happiness isn't going to cause rioting on the streets.

Exactly. One person's idea of a half-baked measure is another's idea of incremental progress. When you can demonstrate that some of what reactionaries believe is flatly wrong it gets a lot easier to chip away at the rest of the errors they've managed to enshrine in law.

And yet another's idea of a slippery slope, sliding towards chaos and the downfall of society. I personally think this is a good idea, but it's pretty clear to me that that's not a universally-held opinion.

Re: Ireland to 'decriminalise' small amounts of drugs for personal use

#88

Post by peteretep »

madaxe_again wrote: post #27
bovermyer wrote: post #3

Ignoring the quality of the article, I am struck by one thing. Why has Ireland all of a sudden taken such a progressive shift? First national recognition of gay marriage, now this? I'm loving it, wherever it came from.

It's a nice idea, but I can see the UK leaning on them, hard, not to do this. I can see the arguments now: - People will get the ferry to Ireland and bring them to the UK! - Drug tourism! Amsterdam! Everybody hates Amsterdam! Look at how terrible everything is there! - Think of the children!! - It's not aligned with the UK's policy of increasing criminalisation! - Think of what you'll do to your prison sector! Hopefu…

    > I can see the UK leaning on them

    > Hopefully Ireland will give their former (hell,
    > ongoing) occupiers the finger
I think you vastly over-estimate the importance of Ireland to the British government.

Re: Ireland to 'decriminalise' small amounts of drugs for personal use

#89

Post by hoodoof »

bcook wrote: post #86
hoodoof wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just one link after 10 second Google search: Fentanyl-linked heroin deaths part of larger drug overdose trend http://articles.baltimoresun.com/2014-02-08/news/bs-md-sun-i...

How is that a citation proving that heroin is controllable if only the heroin was pure? Overdoses happen even with pure heroin. Also, I assumed "citation" would infer that a reputable book or scholarly white paper should be referenced, not a very short newspaper article. Though, we both seem to be unwavering in our views, so I am cool with stopping this back and forth. :)

>> How is that a citation proving that heroin is controllable if only the heroin was pure

I didn't say that.

My point was that people can lead functional lives on heroin with families and jobs. If the heroin is impure, laced with dangerous chemicals or of unknown strength then the cutting agents can harm people or they may overdose.

Clean heroin is free of harmful cutting agents, of known purity and not laced with other drugs. You mock the term "clean heroin" but that's what it is.

You misread my original post.

Re: Ireland to 'decriminalise' small amounts of drugs for personal use

#90

Post by [deleted] »

stephengillie wrote: post #39
rwmj wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The OP's point is that decriminalization leaves the market, the money and the tax revenue with the criminals. As a taxpayer, I want a fair proportion of the money to go to the government, and only full legalization and regulation does that.

But first we have to mollify the masses that the decades of War-On-Drugs FUD is untrue. Show them that drug users are fellow humans, and easier access to the tools they use to generate happiness isn't going to cause rioting on the streets.

[deleted]
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