There is an election coming up. Maybe its smoke and mirrors
Especially smoke.
Ireland to 'decriminalise' small amounts of drugs for personal use
61–70 of 166 posts
Re: Ireland to 'decriminalise' small amounts of drugs for personal use
#62Earlier quoted context omitted.
A very random and uninformed guess - A lot of tech companies have opened up offices in Ireland (ostensibly due to tax laws) and have started to attract young, progressive talent into the country. This investment has helped the economy and raised the standard of living in Ireland, so less people are concerned with enforcing conservative/religion-based regulation. This article has some better stats/anecdotes: http://ww…
I'd really love if this were the case, but sadly it really isn't. The affect of US tech companies coming here has largely been a small-scale version of Palo Alto-esque gentrification of a small area of Dublin (docklands) and any improvements in standard of living being limited to a small white male tech elite. Overall poverty is up (we're dealing with a very serious recent homelessness crisis) and average standards o…
Intel aren't in Dublin either (Leixlip + Limerick)
Re: Ireland to 'decriminalise' small amounts of drugs for personal use
#63It is a step in the right direction, but it still half-baked. Without decriminalizing production as well, they are maintaining a monopoly for those that works outside of the law. Which means a very profitable tax free market that has to recreate all of the state features like physical safety and insurance policies from scratch. Every nation that forbids something that is in demand, is gestating its own competition. T…
Socialist revolutions happen overnight but capitalist changes need to happen over time. In case of India it took 50 years for the government to realize that it is nonsensical to restrict how many nut bolts a factory could produce.
Re: Ireland to 'decriminalise' small amounts of drugs for personal use
#64It is a step in the right direction, but it still half-baked. Without decriminalizing production as well, they are maintaining a monopoly for those that works outside of the law. Which means a very profitable tax free market that has to recreate all of the state features like physical safety and insurance policies from scratch. Every nation that forbids something that is in demand, is gestating its own competition. T…
It is a step in the right direction, but it still half-baked. We all want the revolution overnight but it takes careful and calculated steps to make progress. Consider Representative Barney Frank (D-MA) when accosted by a Republican Rep who claimed the States' Rights to Medical Marijuana Act was a sly step towards the process of legalizing marijuana outright. Barney's (paraphrased) answer: Yep, you got me. That is ou…
"And of course once you've legalized the selling of marijuana, you're potentially openings the doors for other substances"
I agree you've got to start somewhere. I find the argument that marijuana is a door opener to other substances is flawed though. If pot didn't exist, would the same argument be made for liquor stores, tobacco sales, coffee shops, red bulls at 7/11, cough medicine at Walmart etc? Or is it just because of the stigma around marijuana?
Re: Ireland to 'decriminalise' small amounts of drugs for personal use
#65To really solve the social problems, the sale needs to be legalised. Making the sale a criminal offence puts money into the hands of organized crime, drives up the prices, forces addicts to steal to buy their drugs and leads drug users to take "worse" drugs like methamphetamine because "better" drugs aren't easily available. Drugs need to be made legally to ensure quality, to remove harmful impurities, to ensure the…
>The only caveat is that methamphetamine should remain illegal to buy or use. The idea being that people will use "less harmful" drugs than methamphetamine because they are available cheap, easy and clean. The strongest possible justification for legalization of sale and use of drugs is to minimize usage and supply of the greatest of all evils - methamphetamine.
You seem to have an oddly demonized view of methamphetamine. The reaction on people is fairly similar to dextroamphetamine, which you probably know of by the name of 'Adderall', and we prescribe it frequently.
Meth is mildly neurotoxic and adderall is not, so it's definitely worse for you, but we let people do plenty of things that are bad for them.
Not that I'm suggesting anyone go out and develop a meth habit, but if you're arguing in favor or legalizing everything but meth you're already arguing in favor of quite a few things that can cause personal damage.
The violence surrounding meth is much the same as the violence surrounding most other illegal substances - driven by the actions taken to procure funding of the substance or procuring the substance itself.
Re: Ireland to 'decriminalise' small amounts of drugs for personal use
#66Earlier quoted context omitted.
It is a step in the right direction, but it still half-baked. We all want the revolution overnight but it takes careful and calculated steps to make progress. Consider Representative Barney Frank (D-MA) when accosted by a Republican Rep who claimed the States' Rights to Medical Marijuana Act was a sly step towards the process of legalizing marijuana outright. Barney's (paraphrased) answer: Yep, you got me. That is ou…
"And of course once you've legalized the selling of marijuana, you're potentially openings the doors for other substances" I agree you've got to start somewhere. I find the argument that marijuana is a door opener to other substances is flawed though. If pot didn't exist, would the same argument be made for liquor stores, tobacco sales, coffee shops, red bulls at 7/11, cough medicine at Walmart etc? Or is it just bec…
[deleted]
Re: Ireland to 'decriminalise' small amounts of drugs for personal use
#67Earlier quoted context omitted.
It is a step in the right direction, but it still half-baked. We all want the revolution overnight but it takes careful and calculated steps to make progress. Consider Representative Barney Frank (D-MA) when accosted by a Republican Rep who claimed the States' Rights to Medical Marijuana Act was a sly step towards the process of legalizing marijuana outright. Barney's (paraphrased) answer: Yep, you got me. That is ou…
"And of course once you've legalized the selling of marijuana, you're potentially openings the doors for other substances" I agree you've got to start somewhere. I find the argument that marijuana is a door opener to other substances is flawed though. If pot didn't exist, would the same argument be made for liquor stores, tobacco sales, coffee shops, red bulls at 7/11, cough medicine at Walmart etc? Or is it just bec…
Tobacco and alcohol are legal and used because they were staples of the founding of the US. Tobacco was one of the chief exports of the colonies and the new US for centuries and made a lot of people rich and even more people happy.
Alcohol is legal in almost every country on Earth because you can make it out of almost everything. What might end up happening is regional fermentation variants are stigmatized.
Cannibis was persecuted and outlawed in the US because of extreme zenophobia against Mexican migrants in the US after the Mexican-American war. Heres a longer form history of it: http://www.drugpolicy.org/blog/how-did-marijuana-become-ille.... Its the same bizarre backwards thinking that leads to republican frontrunner's garnering praise for wanting to build a concrete wall on the scale of the Great Wall of China to keep impoverished refugees out.
Pot got banned because it was gaining popularity and was threatening entrenched tobacco interests. The same thing happened to opium with Chinese migrant workers. The vast majority of the "controlled substances" that are not particularly life threatening (heroin and cocaine are probably the only outstandingly dangerous ones due to immediate bodily effects, the psychedelics are dangerous because of the behavioral changes usually) but were simply outlawed because they competed with US tobacco and alcohol for consumers drug addictions and habits.
So if pot did not exist, we would probably be a similar state to where we are now - migrant Mexicans would have probably used opium or tobacco, and we have already seen the reactions to both of those in the American historical psyche. We would just probably be pushing MDMA / Meth / LSD legalization instead. Meth most likely, since it also has medical applications.
Re: Ireland to 'decriminalise' small amounts of drugs for personal use
#68To really solve the social problems, the sale needs to be legalised. Making the sale a criminal offence puts money into the hands of organized crime, drives up the prices, forces addicts to steal to buy their drugs and leads drug users to take "worse" drugs like methamphetamine because "better" drugs aren't easily available. Drugs need to be made legally to ensure quality, to remove harmful impurities, to ensure the…
>The only caveat is that methamphetamine should remain illegal to buy or use. The idea being that people will use "less harmful" drugs than methamphetamine because they are available cheap, easy and clean. The strongest possible justification for legalization of sale and use of drugs is to minimize usage and supply of the greatest of all evils - methamphetamine. You seem to have an oddly demonized view of methampheta…
I'm not sure I understand your point. Are you saying meth is "not that bad"? If so then you and I must be reading different newspapers and watching different TV channels.
Re: Ireland to 'decriminalise' small amounts of drugs for personal use
#69Earlier quoted context omitted.
Why do you think meth is worse than heroin?
Meth junkies go on violent psychotic rampages killing and injuring other people and have no other thought in their brains except to get more meth. When I read in the newspaper about someone murdering their family I expect, and often find either a statement or suggestion that the perpetrator was using meth. Heroin junkies go to sleep and are making a poor health choice but it is possible with clean heroin to lead a fu…
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drug_harmfulness
Notice that heroin is the worst, both personally and socially. This is well established. Also, I would not use popular media as the basis for any sound argument. :(
Herion junkies lead a functional life including work and family? Seriously, what the fuck?! Cite just one source that heroin addiction is controllable because the addict uses "clean" heroin. Heroin addiction is the problem, not the adulterants, so purity is unimportant.
Wow. :(
Edit: This is the first time I wished I could downvote. lol. "Clean" heroin...
Re: Ireland to 'decriminalise' small amounts of drugs for personal use
#70Earlier quoted context omitted.
I agree with you but remember that Ireland and the UK are islands, which immediately puts them in a better position to deal with smuggling compared to countries that share long land borders. I think this is why island nations are generally a bit more conservative - it's much more practical to control imports.
That's a very broad conclusion to draw!
True, that's why I qualified it as an opinion - it's just a hunch of mine.