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Microsoft takes .NET open source and cross-platform

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Re: Microsoft takes .NET open source and cross-platform

#791

Post by illumen »

mcv wrote: post #788
jpgvm wrote: post #61

I'm a hardcore *nix guy but boy do I love me some C#. Up until now it's been the best language I have worked with but the worst platform due to it's lack of 'nice things' that we just expect from languages/ecosystems these days. Where 'nice things' is defined as being open-source, having open-source ecosystem of developer tools etc. This isn't so much the beginning (as good stuff has been happening for a couple of ye…

This is my impression too. I'm not terribly familiar with C#, and used to avoid anything from Microsoft like the plague, but a lot of stuff I hear about C# sounds like it's a bit ahead of Java. (Really, Java should be more like Groovy, if you ask me.) But the JVM platform is great, and I'm just not going to get locked into a MS ecosystem. But if MS opens up to the rest of the world, well, that changes things consider…

You prefer yourself an Oracle cage?

Re: Microsoft takes .NET open source and cross-platform

#792

Post by guardian5x »

jacquesm wrote: post #531
tzs wrote: post #523

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What in the third reference was intended to show unclean hands?

MS coincidentially moved their headquarters to Muenchen. http://www.eversheds.com/global/en/what/articles/index.page?... Of course that has absolutely nothing to do with Muenchen switching back to MS.

It is not decided, if Muenchen switches back or not. Afaik they just want to evaluate the IT systems.

Re: Microsoft takes .NET open source and cross-platform

#793

Post by Fede_V »

I know this won't convince many hardcore Unix people who are used to the command line, but Visual Studio is still an absolutely incredible piece of software, and I really, really wish I could run it under Linux.

Even if you are a command line ninja, amazing autocompletion, magical debugging with inspection are pretty wonderful.

Re: Microsoft takes .NET open source and cross-platform

#794

Post by pjmlp »

custardcream wrote: post #789
manyxcxi wrote: post #733

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I actually have this conversation frequently with my developers (most of them are .NET), so I'm really happy to hear someone else say this as well. I've done about a an even split in my career with C# and Java and feel as competent as the next guy bouncing between the two languages and delivering projects for clients, but I like writing C# the most, by far. The language is more modern, things like async/await, Linq,…

Similar situation. I deal with Unix/windows approximately 50/50 from a devops perspective. My word I'll also take anything Unix over windows at the moment regardless of the tech. To be fair in the short term, windows is maximally productive but if you hit an edge case or a rough spot you're SOL, especially if it involves Microsoft support or scripting. Rough edges cost me a lot of money and willpower. An example: I o…

> There is literally none of the above on Unix platforms from experience.

Have you worked in commercial UNIXes?

I have some HP-UX, Aix and Solaris war stories.

Re: Microsoft takes .NET open source and cross-platform

#795

Post by Cthulhu_ »

recursive wrote: post #644
useerup wrote: post #527

Earlier quoted context omitted.

async/await is HUGE. It opens an almost frictionless asynchronous pathway from your code all the way down to asynchronous capabilities of the underlying platform. Which was always the problem with leveraging async/overlapped IO: It was too complex and it turned your application logic inside-out because everything had to be performed in callbacks. async/await takes that on directly: You get everything executed in call…

FYI emcrazyone, it appears that you have been shadow-banned. I don't have any specific recommendations for your question, but I thought you should know.

Telling people they have been shadow-banned defeats the purpose of it.

Re: Microsoft takes .NET open source and cross-platform

#796

Post by custardcream »

pjmlp wrote: post #794
custardcream wrote: post #789

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Similar situation. I deal with Unix/windows approximately 50/50 from a devops perspective. My word I'll also take anything Unix over windows at the moment regardless of the tech. To be fair in the short term, windows is maximally productive but if you hit an edge case or a rough spot you're SOL, especially if it involves Microsoft support or scripting. Rough edges cost me a lot of money and willpower. An example: I o…

> There is literally none of the above on Unix platforms from experience. Have you worked in commercial UNIXes? I have some HP-UX, Aix and Solaris war stories.

Yes, SunOS4, Solaris and HP-UX. Never had any problems but then again we pretty much kept the hardware alive after vendors had deployed everything. Also Oracle on a VMS cluster which was a joy.

To be honest windows (NT series) operating systems were pretty trouble free in the NT4 era. The masses of fragmentation and numerous paradigm shifts were what broke it all for me.

Re: Microsoft takes .NET open source and cross-platform

#797

Post by guardian5x »

jacquesm wrote: post #255
FlyingSnake wrote: post #217

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> They're still doing bad stuff today, just on different fronts. I mean no disrespect, but what's the bad stuff being done my Microsoft today?

That's going to be quite a list. The highlights: Abusing their patent portfolio directly, ditto through proxies, continued attempts to subvert open standards, bribery to use Microsoft software in various third world countries (and in Romania too, and Germany for that matter) and many others besides but those alone would be enough to not make me go back to using their development platform.

Just out of curiosity. When did Microsoft bribe anyone in Germany? I have never heard about that.

Re: Microsoft takes .NET open source and cross-platform

#798

Post by pjmlp »

eloisant wrote: post #186
jpgvm wrote: post #61

I'm a hardcore *nix guy but boy do I love me some C#. Up until now it's been the best language I have worked with but the worst platform due to it's lack of 'nice things' that we just expect from languages/ecosystems these days. Where 'nice things' is defined as being open-source, having open-source ecosystem of developer tools etc. This isn't so much the beginning (as good stuff has been happening for a couple of ye…

C# as a language is better than Java, but not as good as Scala.

> C# as a language is better than Java, but not as good as Scala.

However Scala is not a first class citzen in the JVM, but C# is the systems language of the CLR, already a huge difference.

Re: Microsoft takes .NET open source and cross-platform

#799

Post by pjmlp »

frowaway001 wrote: post #620
Vektorweg wrote: post #291

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Actually, the vast amount of features in C# isn't improving readability. But MS can't just throw out the bad half of features, which makes C# practically unimprovable. Scala has a similar problem.

> But MS can't just throw out the bad half of features, which makes C# practically unimprovable. Scala has a similar problem. How? Scala has been throwing out bad features in pretty much every single release for the last 5 years. It's nothing breathtaking, it just gets done, people are happier and the language gets better.

Scala has hardly the user base of C# developers.

Re: Microsoft takes .NET open source and cross-platform

#800

Post by rmc »

nas wrote: post #129
eyeareque wrote: post #5

If you would have shown me this headline 15 years ago I would have thought it was an onion article. Who would have thought they would have come this far?

It was a totally different world for development 15 years ago though. These days web applications are taking over what used to be in-house developed Windows apps. Those in-house apps represent a huge amount of software development. I think that market mostly dried up for Microsoft. Linux and open source software rule the web app space. On mobile it is Android and iOS. C# is a nice language, better than Java for sure.…

It was a totally different world for development 15 years ago though.

Yeah, now Microsoft are dead.

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