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Honda is killing its EVs

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Re: Honda is killing its EVs

#791

Post by joe_mamba »

GuB-42 wrote: post #285
jacquesm wrote: post #242

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I do live in a house, could easily afford an EV and have plenty of solar to keep it charged. And I still don't have one because all of these EVs feel like the worst of the computer world applied to automotive. The last thing I need is a computer on wheels and I'm old enough that I know my current car is likely my last. For my kids it is different, and I'm sure that they'll go electric at some point but I hope that th…

The Dacia Spring proves that it doesn't have to be the case. The base version doesn't even have a touchscreen, let alone internet connectivity. It is a cheap car, in every sense of the word, but is shows that not every EV has to be like Tesla.

The issue is the small actual range on the Dacia Spring. Great for grocery shopping and going to work in a city setting, bad for long journeys in the winter time. Basically what people want is exactly that type of barebones EV, but with more battery.

Re: Honda is killing its EVs

#792

Post by zvqcMMV6Zcr »

slg wrote: post #441
rjp0008 wrote: post #429

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Cutting someones breaks requires physical access to the hardware. Changing: if (brakeDepressed()){ engageBrake(); } To: if (brakeDepressed() && currentTime < '5/6/26 4pm EST'){ engageBrake(); } Can be deployed to thousands of vehicles, and would stop brakes from working during peak commute time on the East Coast.

Someone who can write out that code with that specificity should know there are countless technical and procedural ways to help prevent that sort of thing from actually making its way into consumer vehicles (or that OTA updates would be the only avenue to accomplish that). In a properly designed system, the only real fear here is a state-level attack. And I just don't think getting every Honda to crash at 4pm is a vu…

> In a properly designed system, the only real fear here is a state-level attack.

No, I actually also have to wonder if manufacturer OTA update won't brick my car on their whim: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8OB2NqcSDXQ

Re: Honda is killing its EVs

#793

Post by mapontosevenths »

dzhiurgis wrote: post #653
carefree-bob wrote: post #649

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is also the issue of longevity. Most people don't expect 20 year old laptops to keep working, but they expect 20 year old cars to keep working. The software defined vehicle is a disposable vehicle, and that means it better be cheap or someone is taking a depreciation bath.

Cars with 20yo computers do work tho.

I own a 2019 VW egolf. It does not work as intended and its only 7 years old.

When they shut down 3g nobody thought about what it would do to "smart cars" that only had 3g modems.

Mine lost the ability to update and is now stuck with an out of date map, no remote start or preheating, no ability to check charge levels remotely, and a ton of bugs that will never be fixed.

When the software stops being supported it basically ruins the car for many purposes. For example, as someone who lives in a cold climate the ability to remotely preheat the cabin and turn on defrosters is an absolute necessity of most folks.

VW doesnt care to fix the issue so owners are stuck, forever.

Re: Honda is killing its EVs

#794

Post by ashergill »

> I can imagine Honda executives thinking that they can wait out the awkward transition period and, when motors and batteries are fully sorted, simply swap out the fossil fuel bits.

I don't know, this actually sounds like a really good strategy. Jaguar, Ford, Porsche and others have spent a lot of money (and arguably brand capital) trying to get in early and developing EVs with too many trade-offs and limitations. Why not wait until you can develop a _really good_ 500-mile-plus, reliable, daily driver EV, if you feel you can get away with waiting?

And most users surely don't care about the whole software-defined-vehicle thing.

Re: Honda is killing its EVs

#795

Post by panick21_ »

parl_match wrote: post #133
mullingitover wrote: post #77

I'm convinced that the Japanese government is terrified of EVs because all the small and medium-sized businesses which support the Japanese auto industry will be absolutely gutted when vehicles contain drastically fewer parts. That, and Japan is deeply screwed if they go all-in on EVs and then China decides they shouldn't be allowed access to any more rare earths.

> I'm convinced that the Japanese government is terrified of EVs because all the small and medium-sized businesses which support the Japanese auto industry will be absolutely gutted when vehicles contain drastically fewer parts. For what it's worth, this theory is blown up by hydrogen based vehicles, which Japan has gone heavily in on. Yes, slightly more parts than an EV, but not a ton. And the drivetrain is electric…

They have not gone heavely in on hydrogen based vehicles. They have talked about it a lot, and given some subsidies, but nothing so major as to make any impact at all.

Also, they invested in in hydrogen internal combustion engines just as much.

Re: Honda is killing its EVs

#796

Post by Denatonium »

bryanlarsen wrote: post #218
slfnflctd wrote: post #183

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Observers and technologists have also consistently failed to appreciate the continuing value proposition of hybrids, and Toyota makes some of the best, top selling models.

My biggest peeve with hybrids is that it gives consumers the mistaken impression that they're going to have to replace the batteries in their EV. Most hybrids aren't liquid-cooled (although that is changing), and the smaller size means that a hybrid puts a lot more cycles per mile on the battery than an EV does. Which in practice means that a hybrid battery lasts about 100,000 miles whereas an EV lasts about 250,000…

A lot of the older hybrids use NiMH batteries. With that being said, a replacement traction battery for a 2nd gen Prius isn't that expensive, at least compared to newer hybrids/EV batteries. The second gen Prius is practical, affordable, and reliable (assuming proper maintenance).

The biggest issue with the Prius (at least for the years in my price range), is that the driving experience is liable to make one fall asleep at the wheel. They're the perfect cars for monks; if you're willing to forego all earthly driving pleasures, you can get high 40s mpg.

My grandmother drove a Prius, and there was a stir in my extended family as to whether she should still be driving, as she'd been seen going 20mph below the speed limit and was driving pretty far to the right side of her lane.

I got the opportunity to drive her Prius and promptly found myself alternating between going too fast and going too slow. Between the awkward pitch of the windshield and the gross-feeling electric power steering, I wasn't the best driver either. I never have any of these problems in my 2005 Honda Civic LX or my family's 4-cylinder 2011 Ford Ranger. The Prius felt like one of those stoned driving simulators that police departments bring to high schools in an effort to prevent DUIs.

I like the idea of hybrids and EVs, but it's hard to justify completely losing the pleasure of driving for 10 extra mpg. For all I know, newer models may have improved this, but they're still to expensive for me to pay any real attention to.

Re: Honda is killing its EVs

#797

Post by globular-toast »

seanmcdirmid wrote: post #633
globular-toast wrote: post #629

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nobody said they generate more but simply that they generate some. Modern petrol engines output very little particulates so almost all the particulates are from tyres and brakes. Why would EVs produce any less?

While EVs are heavier—increasing tire wear—their regenerative braking significantly reduces brake dust, and they eliminate tailpipe exhaust entirely. Overall, EVs offer a net reduction in particulates.

> Overall, EVs offer a net reduction in particulates.

Nobody said anything to the contrary.

I am sceptical about the reduction versus a modern, efficient hybrid, though. Those can use regenerative braking too.

EVs are heavier which increases road wear. Everyone loves to forget about the road.

When it comes to particulates and other issues, EVs are just "less bad". We still need to push for walking, cycling and trams and stop pretending that EVs solve the bigger problems. I hate how every comment on HN that doesn't sing the praises of EVs from the rooftops gets immediately downvoted. We can do better than "less bad". We should be aiming much higher.

I wish EVs happened earlier, before the explosion in fossil fuels that led to enormous vehicles with full air-conditioning "cabins" (more like portable living rooms). EVs being slow to charge is an extremely good thing for us. It makes it obvious that this energy isn't free and takes a while to accumulate. If this was obvious from the start, I doubt people would have wanted these huge, inefficient things. Imagine opting for a climate controlled cabin or a larger vehicle if it meant a significant increase in charging time. Nobody would go for it unless they really had to.

Re: Honda is killing its EVs

#798

Post by hypfer »

angry_octet wrote: post #683
hypfer wrote: post #614

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why is this as downvoted as it is? Man. HN. This goddamn platform

Imagine having a car that pulls packages from npm or Docker hub whenever it gets a network connection. If there were cosmic justice that's what many HN users would get.

Knowing the HN crowd, they would probably run over some family barely being able to make rent, then whine on the internet for the next 7 years about how much that event affected _them_ and _their_ feelings.

Re: Honda is killing its EVs

#799

Post by wolvesechoes »

chrsw wrote: post #782
neya wrote: post #453

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most people including the author think more software = premium/better. But as software engineers, we know better. That's not the case at all. More software = more control by everyone else except you. Manufacturers. Governments. For this reason, I always avoid cars with big flashy LCD screens that are central to controlling the cars accessories like sunroof, AC and other electricals. The other issue is support. So man…

It doesn't have to be that way though. There's a bigger scam in the tech industry in general that says the path we're on is the only path we can be on. More software doesn't have to mean less value for the customer. More software doesn't have to mean your tools and devices are spyware machines. That's just the lie we've been told.

> It doesn't have to be that way though

I see this being repeated for years, yet it is that way. And it is because technical possibilities doesn't matter.

Re: Honda is killing its EVs

#800

Post by boringg »

linkregister wrote: post #351
SoftTalker wrote: post #254

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah I'm talking more like half that. $15K for a basic, no-frills hatchback type EV. I personally buy used, and pay about a quarter of that or less when I buy a car.

I buy used as well (>10 years old) If you can hoof it all the way to Fairfield (2.5 hours from Y Combinator HQ in SF; Muni->BART->Amtrak->taxi), you can get a 7 year old Model 3 for $14k tomorrow . https://www.autotrader.com/cars-for-sale/vehicle/770441711?a...

That used battery is definitely a concern.
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