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Claws are now a new layer on top of LLM agents

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Re: Claws are now a new layer on top of LLM agents

#791

Post by zelphirkalt »

whyenot wrote: post #737
ezst wrote: post #538

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Now we do computing like we play Sim City: sketching fuzzy plans and hoping those little creatures behave the way we thought they might. All the beauty and guarantees offered by a system obeying strict and predictable rules goes down the drain, because life's so boring, apparently.

It’s like coders (and now their agents) are re-creating biology. As a former software engineer who changed careers to biology, it’s kind of cool to see this! There is an inherent fuzziness to biological life, and now AI is also becoming increasingly fuzzy. We are living in a truly amazing time. I don’t know what the future holds, but to be at this point in history and to experience this, it’s quite something.

The issue is that for most things we don't want the fuzzy nature of biology in our systems. Yet some people try to shoehorn it into everything. It is OK for chat or natural language things, which are directed at a human, but most other systems we would like to be 100% reliable, and not 99% or failing after a few years, and at the very least we want them to behave predictably, so that we can fix any mistakes we made, when writing that software.

Re: Claws are now a new layer on top of LLM agents

#792

Post by prmoustache »

hax0ron3 wrote: post #670
ezst wrote: post #538

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Now we do computing like we play Sim City: sketching fuzzy plans and hoping those little creatures behave the way we thought they might. All the beauty and guarantees offered by a system obeying strict and predictable rules goes down the drain, because life's so boring, apparently.

I think it's Darwinian logic in action. In most areas of software, perfection or near-perfection are not required, and as a result software creators are more likely to make money if they ship something that is 80% perfect now than if they ship something that is 99% perfect 6 months from now. I think this is also the reason why the methodology typically named or mis-named "Agile", which can be described as just-in-tim…

> software creators are more likely to make money if they ship something that is 80% perfect now than if they ship something that is 99% perfect 6 months from now.

Except they are shooting themselves in the foot. I reminds me of the goldrush where the shovel and trousers sellers (here the AI companies) would make more money than the miners (developers).

Soon there will be barely any software to build if the general public can just ask an AI to do the things they want. 10 years ago, people would ask a friend that knew about photoshop to help them edit a picture or create something. Nowadays most of them just ask an AI. Same will happen to any kind of productivity or artistic tool. The people alergic to AI slop will just go full luddite and analog and won't use a computer for anything artistry so software creators will lose them alltogether. Home and professionnal software might gradually just disappear and most software creators will have spent thoundands of dollars in tokens with nothing to sell anymore. What might survive might only be the tools that AI rely one, operating systems, database and storage systems, etc.

But boy you will have been super productive, yet totally cancelled by the increase in competition, for the few years it lasted.

Re: Claws are now a new layer on top of LLM agents

#793

Post by whilenot-dev »

BoredPositron wrote: post #787
irthomasthomas wrote: post #784

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I saw simonw getting attacked for sharing his bloglink about it, only it was not even simonw who shared the link here.

I can understand the sentiment against Simon it's just to much of the same content over and over again but I handled it with just blacklisting him no need for personal attacks.

How can I blacklist/hide an HN account?

Re: Claws are now a new layer on top of LLM agents

#794

Post by handfuloflight »

phil21 wrote: post #533
thegrim33 wrote: post #394

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How do you need to supervise this "less" than an LLM that you can feed input to and get output back from? What does it mean that it's "running continuously"? Isn't it just waiting for input from different sources and responding to it? As the person you're replying to feels, I just don't understand. All the descriptions are just random cool sounding words/phrases strung together but none of it actually providing any c…

I’m sure there are other ways of doing what I’m doing, but openclaw was the first “package it up and have it make sense” project that captured my imagination enough to begin playing with AI beyond simple copy/paste stuff from chatGPT. One example from last night: I have openclaw running on a mostly sandboxed NUC on my lab/IoT network at home. While at dinner someone mentioned I should change my holiday light WLED pat…

Great story. And it distills what the claw stuff is all about, in terms of utility is actually here. It's the multitude of "channels", out of the box, that you can enable that allow you to speak with the actual AI agent with access to the configured environment.

Re: Claws are now a new layer on top of LLM agents

#795

Post by verpeteren »

daxfohl wrote: post #552
throwaway13337 wrote: post #529

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is the future we need to make happen. I would love to subscribe to / pay for service that are just APIs. Then have my agent organize them how I want. Imagine youtube, gmail, hacker news, chase bank, whatsapp, the electric company all being just apis. You can interact how you want. The agent can display the content the way you choose. Incumbent companies will fight tooth and nail to avoid this future. Because it'…

I don't exactly mean APIs. (We largely have that with REST). I mean a Gopher-like protocol that's more menu based, and question-response based, than API-based.

Interesting

Re: Claws are now a new layer on top of LLM agents

#796

Post by polotics »

corndoge wrote: post #751
tovej wrote: post #604

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're telling me that a person that's greedy enough to have a net worth of several tens of millions doesn't care about money? Pull the other one, it's got bells on.

Having things doesn't make you greedy

Decades of psychology study beg to differ: https://www.jstor.org/stable/48553218 https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/33734775/ https://academic.oup.com/cercor/article/34/10/bhae414/782463... https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/judgment-and-decisio...

...also, open your eyes?

Re: Claws are now a new layer on top of LLM agents

#797

Post by sph »

bckr wrote: post #317
sph wrote: post #263

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is exactly why artificial super-intelligences are scary. Not necessarily because of its potential actions, but because humans are stupid, and would readily sell their souls and release it into the wild just for an ounce of greed or popularity. And people who don't see it as an existential problem either don't know how deep human stupidity can run, or are exactly those that would greedily seek a quick profit befo…

Look, we’ve had nukes for almost 100 years now. Do you really think our ancient alien zookeepers are gonna let us wipe with AI? Semi /j

Humans as a whole have had nukes, but neither you nor I have access to them, and knowledge of their construction, and the sourcing of raw material is very closely guarded. If you're not part of the cabal, you literally risked being bombed to protect the secret.

This is absolutely not the case with software.

Re: Claws are now a new layer on top of LLM agents

#798

Post by kristopolous »

corndoge wrote: post #746

I still don't understand what openclaw is or does and i've read the docs multiple times over. "Any OS gateway for AI agents across WhatsApp, Telegram, Discord, iMessage, and more. Send a message, get an agent response from your pocket. Plugins add Mattermost and more." "What is OpenClaw? OpenClaw is a self-hosted gateway that connects your favorite chat apps — WhatsApp, Telegram, Discord, iMessage, and more — to AI c…

it's the 40th or so implementation of an old idea but it's the one that was done when the models got good enough to make it useful by someone who goes on podcasts. [1]

Just like youtube was the 40th or so online video site but it's the one that was done by members of the paypal mafia and when enough people had high speed internet.

and that is literally it.

You can do that right now. Go through the 2023 LLM-related product announcements that didn't stick and vibe code it with 2026 models. Slap a cartoon on it, hype the shit out of it and post hard. I'd use a knockoff of "blobby the blobfish".

[1] see https://github.com/simular-ai/Agent-S or https://github.com/trycua/cua or https://github.com/bytebot-ai/bytebot or https://github.com/microsoft/fara or https://github.com/e2b-dev/open-computer-use or https://github.com/777genius/os-ai-computer-use or https://github.com/MrAliHasan/Sophia-AI-Assistant https://github.com/TurixAI/TuriX-CUA https://github.com/iBz-04/raya https://github.com/coasty-ai/open-computer-use https://github.com/OthersideAI/self-operating-computer... I mean there's dozens.

Re: Claws are now a new layer on top of LLM agents

#799

Post by sph »

daxfohl wrote: post #592
solaire_oa wrote: post #560

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To clarify, you mean that we're entering a post-HTML world, correct? As in, why spend effort on the aesthetics if a human will never see it, correct? Because that is also my worry; a post-HTML and perhaps even a POST-API world....

Instead of "User eXperience", a new profession "Agent eXperience" will arise.

Favouriting your comment, to come say you were right in one year's time.
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