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Apple to soon take up to 30% cut from all Patreon creators in iOS app

macrumors.com

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Re: Apple to soon take up to 30% cut from all Patreon creators in iOS app

#791

Post by Already__Taken »

Almondsetat wrote: post #656
silvestrov wrote: post #527

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You could make the argument that Patreon isn't much more than a banking app. It just focuses on the receiver of the money than the sender. I think Apple is slowly killing apps with this policy. Everybody will slowly move to "web only" as 30% would kill their ability to compete with anybody else. This will likely be much stronger in countries where iPhones do not have the same market share as in the US.

You couldn't make that argument because Patreon is also a platform to host content, not just send money. If it was something like a twitch donation app the argument would make more sense

You could if they built a donation & support trading app separate from the content app?

Re: Apple to soon take up to 30% cut from all Patreon creators in iOS app

#792

Post by NorwegianDude »

nozzlegear wrote: post #649
archerx wrote: post #477

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They do and it’s awful. I’m making a browser based game and it works great on desktop browsers but Apple refuses to allow css filters on canvas forcing you to build your own filters and apply them to image data. The web audio api is also a pain to get working properly on iOS safari and a bunch of other arbitrary but feels like they’re intentional obstacles found only on iOS. I’m almost considering just using webgl in…

> Not even in the days of IE was I ever this frustrated. I've been web devving since the days of IE as well and this reeks of hyperbole. Maybe things are different for browser games, but for me, everything has vastly improved since those days.

To be fair, he's completely right. I have a lot of experience with IE6 and safari on iOS, and while IE6 was bad and did weird shit, Safari is much worse. It's amazing that things can work in any browser, without ever even thinking about it, but then on Safari you get weird behaviour, straight up rendering bugs because of some weird race conditions with the engine or even crashes.

The latest issue that I've noticed yesterday is the button nav bar on the screen when running PWAs. The button is over the bottom navbar of the PWA, and despite apple themselves coming up with the API to inform the browser about safe display areas, it doesn't work in PWAs on iOS. PWA mode on iOS != non PWA on iOS. They often behave completely different and you often have to use JS for basic things to work, like clicking a link(yup, this was a thing for years).

Re: Apple to soon take up to 30% cut from all Patreon creators in iOS app

#793

Post by Herring »

micromacrofoot wrote: post #556
nabla9 wrote: post #327

Apple’s App Store profits on commissions from digital sales Revenue $32 B Operating Costs $7 B [1] Estimated Profit $25 B Operating Margin ~78% [1] R&D, security, hosting, human review, and including building and maintaining developer tools Xcode, APIs, and SDKs. Apple could take just 7% cut and still make 20% profits. Fun Fact: During the Epic trial, it was revealed that Apple's profit margins on the App Store were…

I don't think Apple could actually, unless they could prove to shareholders that it would create more value

> shareholders

Yeah that has to be a good 95% of why businesses do bad things.

The last thing Apple wants is for people to think they've plateaued. Stock starts going down to normal P/E ratios, expensive engineers leave, etc.

Re: Apple to soon take up to 30% cut from all Patreon creators in iOS app

#794

Post by asadotzler »

trimbo wrote: post #689
davidmurdoch wrote: post #544

Sometimes I think the 30% was supposed to be 3% originally, and no one noticed the decimal was in the wrong place when they shipped it, and then people paid it anyway, so they kept it. 30% is just so unreasonable that it would be totally understandable if someone would believe this.

In 2008, the app store was launching, and physical software was still sold at Targets, Walmarts and other large retailers. A 30% margin was roughly what retailers would make off of physical software sales. By setting the App Store to be the same, Apple was signaling to retailers that they were not trying to undercut their margin, and keep a healthy relationship with them.

No one was buying boxed software in 2008. The second we had broadband, call it 2002-ish, everyone was downloading everything. For many of us that began in the 90s before we had broadband. Overnight downloads over 56K phone modems was already overtaking boxed purchases. More people downloaded Netscape in 1995 than bought it boxed.

Re: Apple to soon take up to 30% cut from all Patreon creators in iOS app

#795

Post by asadotzler »

ndr42 wrote: post #249
vjvjvjvjghv wrote: post #233

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Jobs was a greedy bastard like all the other CEOs. The difference is that he also had mostly good taste as far as products go.

At that time 30% was not something you would consider high in contrast to the situation before the advent of app stores.

Is bluffing how you want to show up?

Re: Apple to soon take up to 30% cut from all Patreon creators in iOS app

#796

Post by rahilb »

ivm wrote: post #529
rahilb wrote: post #497

Question for the indie developers here; do you get more paying users from Apple devices? I’ve never even considered publishing apps for other platforms as my gut tells me juice wouldn’t be worth the squeeze. Or to put it another way, I would prefer customers who already proved they have deep(er) pockets and are price insensitive.

Yes, I have the same app on iOS and Android, and for a long time it brought in half the revenue on Android for twice the effort (really messy SDK combined with too many OS versions and devices). Lately the gap has been closing, but it's still roughly 40% Android and 60% iOS, though I have slightly more installs on iOS.

Interesting insight, thanks.

Re: Apple to soon take up to 30% cut from all Patreon creators in iOS app

#797

Post by dwaite »

TheDong wrote: post #604
saimiam wrote: post #601

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> certainly found elsewhere I agree that if someone discovered the artist elsewhere, Apple has weaker standing in claiming a huge commission. But if they found an artist elsewhere, they would also know that they can support that artist elsewhere and not through the iOS app. If the patron found them through the patreon iOS app and use the app to consume the artist's content, then clearly the patron has indicated that…

And if I access Patreon via Chrome on Windows, and use Chrome on Windows to consume the artist's content, clearly I prefer the Chrome and Windows experience, so Microsoft and Google should be getting their 30% cut, right? ... and of course the user found the artist elsewhere than the iOS app store. They found them on youtube, or reddit, or _possibly_ on the webview inside the patreon iOS app, which is also _not_ appl…

Sure, if Google wants to start a business model where your websites only load if you sign a business agreement and agree to commissions.

However, regulators would probably take note that Google has been aggressively pushing their browser for free for over a decade to gain market share, and have a field day.

The difference is that Apple's business model hasn't changed - you've always been restricted to distributing apps under a business agreement, and the conditions on commissions have been pretty consistent since inception, or at least since IAP was added in 2009.

"What ifs" about Apple charging 30% for bank transactions would run afoul of regulators. This is about consuming member-exclusive goods and services in-app, which again has been in the contract terms since 2009.

Goods and services consumed outside of the app (such as purchases of physical items on Amazon, or plane tickets or the like) are actually forbidden from using in-app purchase and do not have a commission rate.

Re: Apple to soon take up to 30% cut from all Patreon creators in iOS app

#798

Post by saurik »

WA wrote: post #294
ndr42 wrote: post #249

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At that time 30% was not something you would consider high in contrast to the situation before the advent of app stores.

This is outrageously wrong. Back in 2011, the pricing model for "an app in your pocket" was 99 cents. The universal pricing model of apps was a one-time fee and the pricing range was that of an mp3 roughly. 30% of that is a lot. App sales worked only in volume. If you sold software over the internet, you had PayPal, which had a flat fee of $0.35 + 1.7% or so and if your shareware was $30, the transaction fee essentia…

> you had PayPal, which had a flat fee of $0.35 + 1.7% or so

PayPal also offered a "micropayments" rate (that I used in Cydia), wherein they charged $0.05+5% (which is much better for payments under $12).

Re: Apple to soon take up to 30% cut from all Patreon creators in iOS app

#799

Post by anigbrowl »

saimiam wrote: post #601
TheDong wrote: post #519

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Presumably you also would agree that it's fair if Chrome, Windows, and Lenovo all charged me 30% each for using Patreon via Chrome+Windows on a thinkpad, right? They're doing about as much to facilitate my use of Patreon as Apple is. This isn't like a mall at all. This is like a web browser, where apps are webpages, and Apple is insisting that the contents of that webpage are something they can dictate all payment te…

> certainly found elsewhere I agree that if someone discovered the artist elsewhere, Apple has weaker standing in claiming a huge commission. But if they found an artist elsewhere, they would also know that they can support that artist elsewhere and not through the iOS app. If the patron found them through the patreon iOS app and use the app to consume the artist's content, then clearly the patron has indicated that…

That's not worth 30%. Imagine if Youtube charged 30% for anyone who clicked a link under a video in a web browser.

Even if people do enjoy browsing through the PAtreon app and choosing creators they want to subscribe to, that's not worth 30%. Rent-seeking is a cognitive disease.

Re: Apple to soon take up to 30% cut from all Patreon creators in iOS app

#800

Post by superxpro12 »

mhitza wrote: post #203

Just stop publishing the app, not every little thing needs an app. What the use for the app anyway? Notifications and apple pay?

Its the convenience. 1 or 2 button clicks from the home screen to open "the app".

Sure you could do it in a browser, but half the time the credentials dont cache, or you have to waste 4 clicks and 20 seconds finding a bookmark.

They want convenience. For better or worse.

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